dm_3006

Alpha 2a is out! For comments and suggestions please look here!

The map is set in the slums and abandoned industrial areas in the lower levels of a kilometer-high, futuristic city. Corrugated sheet iron and concrete. Some parts stand underwater. Sunlight falls in small chasms but mostly stays a glow in the distance. HDR, mmmm.

Hey, reaper47, nice to see more from you. :smile:

I like the screenshots - in fact the first one reminds me of something else I've seen here, maybe it was a WIP or abandoned map of yours? Regardless, it looks great; the sunlight filtering down through the window gives a very nice contrast (though in the first shot, at the left; bump up the lightmap scale). I also really like the orange glow on the stairs, which would look to be bounced light from the sun. Very realistic. The contrast between blue in the bottom area and yellow elsewhere is nice. :smile: The whole look of the first screen, kind of this concrete structure built upwards, just looks real. The concrete looks thick and heavy, everything has weight to it... maybe it's partially the angle of the shot, or the realistic lighting.. or good architecture. :smile:

Your description sounds very interesting. "Corrugated sheet iron and concrete" - I like the mental image I'm getting. :smile: Also having some parts underwater sounds like a very cool gameplay element.

Lighting looks and sounds like it's going to be great. :smile: Looks quite nice so far, give us some more screens! :biggrin:

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-- midkay

Yea, that's the same shot like in the WIP thread, only some slightly updated geometry!

I start fiddling with lighting very early as I think it's the fastest way of getting a sense for the look and feel. The ground brush-work is actually very basic here, but you can see what's my goal. I hope I can show some screens of other areas of the map soon.

There are a lot of more "metallic" areas I want to get in here so maybe the map name will change to "dm_metal" (joke...) or hopefully something more fitting by the time it's release-ready. The layout is pretty much finished and I'm moving fast this time :heee:

Love the screenshots Pure Sex

Edit: Upon Closer Inspection the lighting looks rather bad do a -Extra compile becuase those would make a great picture

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Why Do we all have to wear these ridiculous ties

Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate! Here are a few more screens that show some of the wet/water sections as well as some of the more blocky/unfinished parts.

[edit: Yea, I noticed the lightmaps are a bit rougher than usual. I'll try a more quality vrad run sometime!]

I decided to protect the RPG by a lockdownesque user-activated trap:

Players who want the RPG have to dive through this little pool. Unfortunately, the "high voltage" sign above it is there for a reason.


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A switch nearby activates a defect electricity cable (yet invisible) that turns the pool into a deadly trap )people get fried).


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:heee:

Here's another view at the most detailed part of the map yet that shows the puddles of water at the bottom.


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On the left you see the entrance to an underground section, that I don't want to show yet:


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And a shot of the old industrial/loft building in the top area. The back of these rooms have to be built yet and the white/HDR-light in the background should become a nice skybox once. I like the rows of colums and the general openness of it.


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Honestly, this is looking fantastic. I've been struggling to come up with something constructive for you to improve or fix, but I can't find anything yet.

Wow, reaper47 - agreement with Morphine, this really looks great. :smile:

Really like those puddles of water, especially.

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-- midkay

A few updates:

First, because of it's sci-fi setting, I decided to give the map the uber futristic title dm_3006 (thousand years in the future... get it? get it?).

Also the layout is pretty much 100% finished and most of the basic brushwork is done. I decided to release the map as soon as the general feel of it fits for some alpha playtesting. So please, don't be surprised if the first release looks even a bit blockier at places than what you see in the screenshots here :wink: Should be ready in the coming weeks.

Check out the "official" shots in the map profile, there are 2 new ones. Here's a 3rd that didn't make it there but shows a part of the map I kinda like. It's the waste disposal system of the future that, as you can see, doesn't work very well. Between the garbage there are some hidden goodies. It is also a neverending supply of disgusting, used toilets.

The quality of most of your screenshots is quite poor, which is shameful for a map this good looking. Under 120k should be sufficient to keep a certain screaming old man at bay. :wink:

I look forward to having a run around this when you put up a download. You seem have made excellent use of the z-axis. The adundance of filthy old toilets also appeals to a gravity gun whore like myself.

Your map description reminded me of FF7.

This looks awesome, the whole "kilometer high city" thing reminds me of
Kaineng City in guildwars, there's sewers and stuff too..

I remember some places with bars going from wall to wall, with chains
hanging from them, i think having some wires dangling from metal bars
(like the ones in the last screenshot) would be pretty neat.

here's some concept art, just to make sure that you know what i'm
talking about :razz:
http://www.komotion.com/dociu/gallery/Albums/Album6/Source/sewers2.jpg

It is also a neverending supply of disgusting, used toilets.

lol.

Great job on everything so far.

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Boo f**king Hoo

Thanks for the encouraging comments. I never played FF7 but the guildwars concept paint (I bet that's a craig mullins piece) is more what I strive for.

The three screens from the map profile are re-compressed by a Snarkpit script. I actually decided to upload 300k versions for them and use what the 'pit made of them because it still looks best. I'll make the imageshack shots a little sharper in the future :heee:

While it's OK visually, I just don't get any "futuristic" feel from it, thus far.

It's more the dirty kind of futuristic, no spaceships. Maybe some strange industrial parts of big, Asian cities actually looks like this today (although I doubt it). I just didn't want to restrict myself to a realistic scale and theme and make the whole thing feel like it is a bit bigger and more "grown" than any structure you'd find today. But I definately consider your argument! I personally always found it a bit irritating that the map "lostvillage" neither looks lost nor like a village. :smile:

You could imply the futuristic theme with a few high-tech consoles or electronic kiosks - something cyberpunkish. Please, don't use combine consoles though - go out on a limb and go for some custom models.

don't use combine consoles

That was a rule of mine from the beginning!

Yea, Ill try something. I'm afraid the custom models have to wait for later releases.

What about a few patrolling manhacks? Would that be too HL2ish?

I'm afraid it would.

I hope with the skybox and soundscape you get into the theme quite quickly. Unfortunately I haven't added much to the skybox yet that would show in a screenshot. It's just the background (which can wait). The same is true for the soundscape.

I'm very close to an alpha release, though (could be by the end of the week). It will be a bit blocky at places. I'd like to just test the gameplay in an earlier version in case I have to remove a whole junk of a building. But I'd be more than happy for some early ideas about the visuals, too!

I Like the Manhack idea it seems like it could definetly add some life to the map

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Why Do we all have to wear these ridiculous ties

I prefer patroling rats. :razz:

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Elon Yariv

The alpha version is ready and compiled. All I have to do is zip it and load it up. Should be finished by tomorrow or the day after. :heee:

reaper47: Awesome! I really can't wait to try it. :smile: Hurry up! :biggrin:

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-- midkay

This version is outdated. For comments and suggestions see Alpha2a look here!

This is a first "preview" version of the map. I could list tons of "known issues" (the elevator is buggy, there's a lack of physics props, some parts are probably to dark... ) but see for yourself what you consider most urgent to be fixed and fine-tuned for the next release.

There are no lighting fixtures, only basic texturing and some parts are still very blocky. This version is meant as a play test to see how the map works on a server, find undiscovered bugs and balance basic gameplay. If you have a good idea regarding architecture or general asestetics feel free to post it too, I'm happy to hear how you see parts of the map I'm probably blind for myself.

If you know a server where I could host the map for a test or two that would be awesome. I try running it myself on my pathetic DSL line but I'm afraid this won't work very well.

Ok, it's up. I hope the files are zipped correctly and that the download and the included files work.

Whoa. This map really blew me away.

The first thing I noticed was the incredible contrast with the lighting. I spawned right by the toilet and garbage pile. The sunlight's extremely bright and its hotspots look sublime.

I began to walk around, and reached a point where I could look up into the sky - absolutely perfectly set-up sun (very bright; yellow-orange). I continued to admire the excellent lighting contrast. I wandered through some watery areas, and really liked the blue lights diffusing out from under some of the pillars (excellent idea, feel... perfect). The water was also perfect - clear and clean. I ducked underwater for a moment once, and I saw a floating ragdoll stuck under a grate - very nice touch. :smile:

Continued to walk around, really enjoying the sights. I approached the area I'd seen in screenshots; the stairways leading up with a blue-lit passageway underneath. This on its own is most definitely the coolest lighting I've ever seen in Source and certainly one of the most atmospheric areas I've ever seen in Source as well. The sunlight filtering down, combined with a warm glow on the stairs and a blue glow underneath is indescribable (everybody reading - turn on HDR and poke around there, now). I hopped up on the corrugated metal sheets and really enjoyed the lighting up there. Lots of little touches like that catwalk were cool.

I headed around to an elevator; on my way I came back across the area I first saw the sun earlier, and I noticed a very cool bluish structure sticking up. When I reached the "edge" of the map near the top of the elevator, it was very "wow". The whole structure of the facility is so fascinating, it seems very alien and surreal with the fog (actually it reminded me strongly of Cube, if you've seen that film - some huge, weird location in somewhere impossible). I loved the architecture right there, and indeed all over the map. This whole.. facility.. an incredibly gritty-realistic feel.

I have two minor complaints. One is the lightmap sizing in some areas - it's too bad that you probably won't ever get very smooth lighting with such harsh contrast. :sad: I noticed you increased the lightmap size where I suggested and it was really necessary, although it could surely stand to be even smoother. All over I noticed that lightmap sizes should be much more dense (namely "sunspots" and under those blue pillars). You should cut out just the sections of brushes that are in bright sunlight and reduce the lightmap sizes on these sections to as low as possible - like 4 or even 2 if that's possible. The second complaint is the brightness overall. The indoor (read: far from sunlight) areas are too dark in some areas, especially in some of the places with those blue-lit pillars with low ceilings and water. I hope you add more lighting to these areas but whatever you do, I beg of you - do not touch your ambient lighting setting. The incredible contrast between light and dark in some areas is perfect. I don't want to see that lost.

I'd like to end this by saying that this is probably the most original and most hands-down cool layout, architecture, mood, feel and especially lighting I've ever seen in a Source map, and probably in any other level in any FPS, period. You've got a masterpiece on your hands, reaper47. I cannot wait to try actually playing on this. Bravo.

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-- midkay

Hey, midk, thanks. You're making me blush a little as some of the areas are really rough, still. :smile:

You're right with the lightmaps. It is one of the few times where I wish HL2 had more Doom-3-ish real time lighting as even with a downscaled lightmap grid the edges look very unnatural. I knew I should have looked at the brightness levels more. The darkness of some of the areas is rather obvious and I could have fixed that quite easily.

I like the "Chapter" system of this board so, please, for further posts about the current alpha use this thread chapter.

Testing to see if this works, I hit reply in the Alpha chapter - as I did last time - and it didn't work.. maybe it's 'cause I always have to hit that "Can't see this box?" button, I guess since I use Firefox (Doesn't happen in IE).

Anyways, yeah.. I like the look of lightmaps a lot in most areas, but in some areas with such sharp contrast it's hard to deal with. :\

Regardless, it's not a huge deal - maybe you can try lowering it a bit more if possible and just get it to look as good as you can. I actually personally thought that the screenshot that I mentioned the lightmap scale on (default 16-size?) looked better than this, since the contrast is so high it looks worse with the current size (very steppy) versus at least the old one blended a bit more.. I'd just suggest trying it lower if that's possible, or going back to 16-scale.. unless you can get very precise lightmaps, fall back to the blurred-but-nicer-looking ones. :smile:

I'd like to wander around here again to let you know more what I think about the layout, once I get back from work - quite mazelike, in a cool way, but I need to get more familiar with it. :smile:

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-- midkay

Oh, sorry. Yea, the 'pit doesn't like firefox very much. Nevermind.

I'm running a crappy server from time to time. I can't host much more than 3 players or so :sad: but there are a few basic things I'd love to test. So if you see a server running the map feel free to join. Unfortunately you live on the other side of the world almost literally. :smile:

Host one anyway and I'll join you. The ping doesn't matter :smile:

I have a crappy server up at the moment. Pw is snarkpit. Just filter by mapname and you should find it. edit: server down

I threw it into my server rotation... You can bring it up with a rockthevote, or just catch myself or another admin on.

moto-games.squick.net ~ 70.91.205.205

In the HL2DM server browser it's;

~ ~ [EM] Emanon Systems - Santa Cruz CA - 150+ Custom Maps

-Mike- / [EM] Moike_the_Squid

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-Mike- is: Biker ~ Slacker ~ Iconoclast ~ Eclectic Thinker
MoikeNET ~ www.moike.net - Bad Cat Racing ~ www.badcatracing.com

I'd also like to join if you got a game together.

Maybe you can schedule one and we can use Moike's server for a playtest. :smile:

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-- midkay

Thanks, both of you! :smile:

Anytime you need a test server Reaper just let me know, as I run two, one in Dallas at 63.210.148.165:27015 and one in San Jose at 8.6.8.197:27015. I can usually pull in 10-14 [FF] members to support testing depending upon the time of day.

I always look forward to your maps!

Thanks for the offer, Jake_Brake, sounds great!

I'm living in Europe (GMT+1 timezone that means I'm about 7-9 hours later). I have time tonight but almost anytime would be fine for me if it's later afternoon or evening here and not, say, 4 am :wink:

I'd love to see how the map plays with a few people (I'm not in a clan myself which makes it hard to get so many people to test a new map). Also if you're in the mood of having a 10-minute run of the map with whatever-many players or just for yourself it would be fine too if you just post what you'd like to see fixed/changed especially regarding gameplay.

Thanks for an example of the right way to start a map with great lighting! I love the hint of the skyscraper through the glint of the sun. The ideas this map bring to mind would be to provide more glints of the future world built upon these lower recesses. Perhaps an occational passing of some futuristic hover vehicle (with audio effects), or more ominous patroling inforcement. Maybe some sign of commerce such as a distance antimated billboard. More glints of buildings showing the future is there but is out of reach. I think this would be really cool especially if you could just barely see it but realize its there but you still strain to see it, just like the glint of the building you already have.

Some images in this post have been automatically down-sized, click on them to view the full sized versions:

had a run around in it.

I like the fact that you have creative and original architecture, which, combined with the z-axis usage, gives some nice parts in your map. Personally however, i still think the overal map reminds me of HL2SP too much, partly due to the "dirty" style. But that's personal preference ofcourse.

One thing that struck me as very original and well done are the square pillars in the water with the blue-ish light at the bottom. the effect in dark shallow water is superb and gives great atmosphere:

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These words are my diaries screaming out loud

looks more like a normal city to me. but it looks alright!

I don't want to live in what you consider a normal city, guys, but thanks! :biggrin:

Thanks, Blister. The underground parts are something I wanted to build for a long time. This map gave me the opportunity add such architecture freely. The reasony I didn't post any screenshots yet is that there aren't any proper angles that look "right" enough for me yet. Also it's embarrassingly obviously too dark down there...

I guess I always liked the "dirty" style in general. The more I build it, the more the map reminds me of the fifth element, whose NYC scenes have always impressed me quite a bit. I'm not a big fan of HL2DM maps where you fall to death all the time, which kinda forced me to build this map on the bottom of the city rather than on the top of these skyscrapers. I'll try to establish the alien, futuristic theme a bit more with some graphical updates, but I love the dirty feel too much to add much high-tech/shiny stuff. I like to think of the place to be old and abandoned, like it's been in use long ago and now forgotten. That's one of my favourite aspects of HL1/2's art direction and I have no problem with keeping that. I think that the combine structures have always been too shiny in contrast, for example, although they do look very cool.

I have a question regarding the upper part of the map.

So far you can only get there using the elevator. This naturally creates a choke-point but it's intended. There's also a spawn point up there but it's far away from the elevator. The only weapon in the upper areas is the magnum. There isn't even any ammo for it. So in order to get anything better or ammo for other weapons you have to move down the elevator again. I did that to avoid people camping in the upper parts forever. But at the same time you can camp up there for a short while very elegantly which is something I like to do.

Now this sounds good to me but it's very experimental. I'd be interested in how you think about it. Should I add a second way up (a ladder, for example?). SHould I put more spawn points up there.

This is something that haunts me layout-wise.

I think the upper area (just like the rest of the map) is superb in
terms of potential and "evocative" power. I like the skybox city seen
beyond, even in it's early stage.

As for making further vertical connections, maybe you could use a fan
like the one in HLDM's snarkpit map. I don't know if it fits with
your idea of an abandoned place, but it would bring interesting
variation to the gameplay. For example, the fan could be in a wide
shaft where there are different platforms and height levels to jump
off.

As for other aspects of the map, it's too early to judge. There seem to be several dead-ends but that will probably change.

yeah I mean its a bit like a Deathmatch modification of a normal city.
but like when I think of futuristic Im thinking of like lasers and flying
platforms you know ;D this is more like a part of a ghetto to me ;D
a well designed part of a ghetto but a ghetto nonetheless ;D

Thanks, Kasperg. The fan idea sounds interesting. I'm not sure if I find a way of implementing it but I really like it.

The dead ends are... well, I feel rather confident about building a circular or figure 8 layout so I decided to break this up a little and add a few harmless dead-ends here and there. The annoyance factor is hard to tell yet but I don't see anyone running in a dead end thinking "wtf, I'm trapped!".

If you find a dead end which feels very annoying please tell me. I consider closing or opening it to improve the flow.

I agree with Kasperg in that the upper area is very provocative. That's a very good word to describe the feeling I (and apparently others) get whilst up there. :smile:

I do recall running into a few dead ends, but none of them really bothered me - I only recall a couple little "boxes" off the main level you could step into to get a weapon or somesuch. Could even call them good hiding places or ambush spots.

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-- midkay

Hmm, I think you mean the cardboard boxes underneath the fences? They were more decorative than anything. The reason I removed them from this version is that they were bugged somehow. You can still get the battery inside with some ggun acrobatics.

I don't know if anyone noticed, but there's another small shaft somwhere near the arch. Throw in a grenade and you should get some goodies.

Oh, no, sorry, I was unclear about that.

By "boxes" I meant tiny little rooms off the main map. Like you literally cut a hole in a wall and put an open box there for someone to walk into. No long corridors to walk down to hit a dead end; the dead ends are quite small and from what I recall simply box-shaped extrusions off the main level.

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-- midkay

Oh I get it. Well, they're appendixes of sort to give people cover when going around a corner. I always feel like straigth "L" shaped corridors make movement feel a bit "forced".

Even if those appendixes will make the gameflow less forced, you should
give them some sort of significance in terms of the theme, so they
don't feel architecturally forced. Closed doors, ventshafts, windows or
other things would be the natural way to solve it, I think.

Well, I have had this up and running for two days on my Dallas server. The reactions have been hot and cold. Those that love it state that it is a very unique layout, great textures, very good fps performance and really provides tremendous "atmosphere". Those that do not like it seem to point to one complaint: the lower levels being just too dark. I agree with Kasperg and Reapers points: More accessibility to the upper levels, and more weapon availability would add a lot. And, add at least one other spawn point up there. I also would lighten up the lower levels just a tad (not too much as I personally like the dark atmosphere as it adds a creepy feeling to the map)

BTW, I am in the camp that "loves" the map! Very clean, unique with crisp detail! I am going to keep the map in my rotation for awhile so keep up the great work!

Even if those appendixes will make the gameflow less forced, you should
give them some sort of significance in terms of the theme, so they
don't feel architecturally forced. Closed doors, ventshafts, windows or
other things would be the natural way to solve it, I think.

Agreed, I'll think of something!

[FF]FNDR.Jake_Brake, thanks a lot for the feedback! My internet connection was kinda non-existent the last few days so I could neither join the server or answer your post.

Thanks to you guys I now have a rather clear idea of what to change for the next update! :smile:

Heh, I know what you mean. I'll try out something with the next update :wink:

The one overriding problem I can see with this map is a lack of
identity. The architecture and atmosphere are carried off well, but in
terms of having a clear and quickly understood layout, they do not
succeed.

A lot of the lower water areas look more or less the same. There is not
much variation in lighting, room shape or size to give people clear
landmarks to play by. Perhaps you incorporate in more side details,
like insets in the walls covered by grates. Wires and cables, red/green
lights, giant fans or even a pile of rubbish or a distinctive poster
can help landmark the map.

My only other criticism would be that the layout also suffers from
being too "circular". The escape opportunities from firefights tend to
be limited to 2 exits at most, and only in a few areas is there z-axis
incorporation. So far you have a good level but it needs refining and
retuning in terms of gameplay mechanics. A good theme and good standard
of construction is let down by an oversight of mechanics.

I'd list all the things I enjoy about the map, but that's already been done :wink: There is potential for a classic map here.