A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese

A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese

Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by Bewbies on Mon Jan 29th 2007 at 5:53pm
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In my line of work, I've been on the site of structure fires multiple times.. Can't call myself an expert, but I've had the pleasure of meeting the resident investigators and engineers. In a long, drawn-out talk about 9/11 with one of the engineers, I had my eyes opened to the ordeal from their standpoint. It was kind of awkward, because he sorta cried when talking about the towers falling.. haha but anyway, for you people wearing tinfoil-hats:
  • These iron beams are what held up what was once the tallest skyscraper in the U.S.. Considering iron will begin losing it's supporting strength at 30% of the actual melting point, I'm surprised it took so long for the towers to fall. Keep in mind how massive this building was. That's a whole lot of weight for less-than-perfect supporting strength.
  • The floors that were struck by the plane were already weakened by the initial concussion and actual breaking of supports. Again, people forget how massive the plane was. This was just a skyscraper, not a mass of iron. Remember when the towers were falling? How much iron did you see? But anyway..
  • It's the nature of structural engeering to have floors not only support themselves, but support the floors above them. When a floor stops supporting itself, the floor below it takes the weight. The key is keeping weight distribution vertical. Iron supports would sooner break at the seams than buckle, under circumstances that only involved weight.. which is why such long segments of metal are used, rather than piecing together many small ones. Once weakened, though, the supports will buckle, shifting the weight distribution away from vertical, into the point of weakness.
  • Once a floor gives out, its weight is shifted down to the floor below it.. with inertia applied. The vertical weight distribution is flushed down the drain, and the floors fall ontop of each other. Each floor, the weight increases, obliterating anything in its path like falling dominos. This is plainly seen as the towers are falling - from the top down.
When we see skyscrapers, we're tempted to think that the monstrous things are completely stable hunks of iron.. they're not. They're a miracle of engeering, being held together with extremely delicate architecture. We want to cite buildings that have caught fire and not burned down? Sure. Have at it. Keep in mind some more things:
  • Buildings that catch fire do burn down. If there are buildings that don't, woohoo! Isn't that nice. I suppose I should go smoke cigarettes because there are people that have lived with smoking for over 100 years. The whole lung cancer thing is just a conspiracy to run big tobacco out of business.
  • Buildings made of stone and wood don't burn the same way as a building made of iron. Brick/stone houses will burn internally, along with their roofs.. They do come down a lot of the time, but have a better track record. Most small buildings, framed in wood, burn just like you'd imagine - through and through. Wooden supports burn, break, entire walls fall over. This is a given, though. Single-story buildings built with iron will burn, leaving an iron skeleton.. Though I've only seen that once. Why build a single-story home out of iron? Anyway, Buildings burn down. Especially those hit with jetfuel-filled passenger airplanes.
Lastly, if you honestly consider the government had anything to do with it, you've got some wires crossed. Could they orchestrate what would be considered the greatest hoax and conspiracy of all time, and not an exit strategy for Iraq? Oh.. Iraq is just another conspiracy. To.. umm.. make people lose faith in our administration? To lose the house and senate to the democrats? Makes sense.

[edit]Because my wall of text didn't make the post big enough:[/edit]

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the players tried to take the field
the marching band refused to yield
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by fishy on Mon Jan 29th 2007 at 7:01pm
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conspiracy about 9/11 aside, the way that the US people were duped into paying income tax, and the way the money is spent, is outrageous. The way that state courts refuse to accept supreme court rulings, and dismiss the constitution is even more outrageous.

Did you know that the federal reserve isn't actually owned by the people of america, or even the government? It used to be, but it was given away to a cartel of un-named bankers back about the 1920's, which was also around the time that Woodrow Wilson claimed that some ammendment (13th, i think) had given him new tax raising powers. The supreme court ruled a few years later that he'd been talking rubbish, but by then everyone was paying, and were affraid to stop. Now the IRS make sure people stay affraid, and the money they collect just about covers the interest that gets paid on loans that the government take from the federal bank.(the one they gave away)

If this all sounds too crazy to be true, then maybe that's what it is. I'm sure that anyone who's interested will be able to find out. I'm not that interested, as I don't pay US taxes, and I'm happy to believe that the US system is corrupted to the core. No reflection on the people, though. It's the same in most countries.
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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by DocRock on Mon Jan 29th 2007 at 8:09pm
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Does this look like a collapse or an explosion?

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Condemnation without Investigation is the Highest Form of Ignorance!
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by Bewbies on Mon Jan 29th 2007 at 8:30pm
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that looks like a floor falling ontop of the floor below it. see how the debris is flying out and downward? if it were an explosion, it'd be going out and up more than anything else. i see plumes of dust shooting up, but that's just physics at work. dust -> shooting up. debris -> shooting down.

looks like a collapse.
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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by reaper47 on Mon Jan 29th 2007 at 8:34pm
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It looks like one of the biggest buildings in the world collapses. :rolleyes:

The smoke-puffs coming out a few floors underneath the falling parts could be anything. Windows could break and release a dust cloud caused by the pressure... other things we're completely forgetting... I bet a collapsing skyscraper is among the most difficult to simulate things on earth. It?s no real surprise scientists have trouble explaining the events scientifically. There are too many variables.

I?m much more interested in seeing the videotapes from the Pentagon hit. Where are they?
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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by RedWood on Mon Jan 29th 2007 at 8:50pm
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...and I'm happy to believe that the US system is corrupted to the core. No reflection on the people, though. It's the same in most countries.
Everything i believe in about this country revolves around those two statements.

And it also looks like a collapse to me.
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by DocRock on Mon Jan 29th 2007 at 8:56pm
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<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting reaper47</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>I?m much more interested in seeing the videotapes from the Pentagon hit. Where are they?</DIV></DIV>

Interesting thought. If there is nothing for us to worry about, then why don't they release the tapes? What are they wanting to hide?

There are alot of interesting thoughts, and you don't need to wear a tinfoil hat to wonder about them, you only need to be a normal human being who ponders things and questions them. To label someone 'someone who wears a tinfoil hat' simply because they have questions about the truth of 9/11 is childish.

Like I said in an earlier post, I can't help to wonder why people get so tired of talking about 9/11 when so many questions, still to this day, remain unanswered - or hidden from us - like the Pentagon tapes.

What are they afraid of? Why do they hide?

In the following video (in clip 2), where are the fires that melted the steel, or bent the steel enough to make the building collapse upon itself?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_gdCrmbrIg
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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by Pvt.Scythe on Mon Jan 29th 2007 at 9:34pm
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<span style="color: gold;">http://www.shoutfile.com/v/gSfSsCpR/Why_People_Believe_Americans_Are_Stupid

I got this link from a female friend of mine and it made me think.
</span>
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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by reaper47 on Mon Jan 29th 2007 at 9:35pm
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It obviously didn't burn the whole time and everywhere. A huge part of the walls and supports where destroyed the second the plane hit. This creates enough instability for the 30(?) floors above it, if you ask me. There doesn't have to be an open fire for some important steel beams to be hot also. The tower started collapsing exactly where the plane hit. How should they have planned this beforehand?

Too many variables to conclude there were explosives. Also the sounds... they could come from 300 meter steel and whatnot shaking or moving in any way. It doesn't have to be C4.
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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by Andrei on Mon Jan 29th 2007 at 9:40pm
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where are the fires that melted the steel
There, in clip 2, you can even see what appears to be glowing red steel, somewhere on the left, in the smoke.
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by reaper47 on Mon Jan 29th 2007 at 9:54pm
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Pvt.Scythe, I watched the clip and I think it's pretty mean. You can do that in almost every country. I know a German comedian who did that in Berlin with a similar result...

I'm sure if you're an intelligent American (and there must be enough considering it's one of the wealthiest and technologically advanced countries in the world) you must get very mad if you see this.

But I wouldn't dismiss clips like this as nonsense either. I'm sure they cut out many people who were right. But I've never seen a person sticking an "Iran" flag in Australia, even if it's labeled wrong. That wasn't some poor college student. That was a grown man who didn't hesitate for a second. I've never seen anything like this in Berlin.

It reminded me of Asians who rather say yes and point in a wrong direction when they are asked for the way to a place they don't know rather than admitting their lack of knowledge. It has something to do with "loosing your face". They probably smile while doing that, also.

I think that ultimately, this could be the reason for the American stereotype of not knowing anything about the world. They talk as if it's the most obvious thing, as if they knew it all the time, even if they have no idea. I guess that's something Americans like to do more than others :biggrin: :rolleyes:

I think more Europens would have said they're not sure and would have been more sceptical towards the guy with the microphone.

But, yes these are streotypes. I apologize to the educated Americans in this forum... :sad:
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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by Pvt.Scythe on Mon Jan 29th 2007 at 10:16pm
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I'm sorry for this clip, but I think I've told you about that nurse student from Utah that visited our school some years ago(I'm talking about my previous school). That woman was 21 and she didn't know in which part of the world she was in. All she knew was that she was "somewhere north". When we made some additional questions it turned out that her geography was really weak. It's all too true what that clip shows about American ignorance. I know there are educated people in there, smart ones, but if general population has that bad knowledge on what happens outside their country... It scares the living daylight out of me to think that you guys actually have nukes.
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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by Crono on Mon Jan 29th 2007 at 10:26pm
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I'm sorry for this clip, but I think I've told you about that nurse student from Utah that visited our school some years ago(I'm talking about my previous school). That woman was 21 and she didn't know in which part of the world she was in. All she knew was that she was "somewhere north". When we made some additional questions it turned out that her geography was really weak. It's all too true what that clip shows about American ignorance. I know there are educated people in there, smart ones, but if general population has that bad knowledge on what happens outside their country... It scares the living daylight out of me to think that you guys actually have nukes.
That's a very ignorant statement on your part and in the process refutes the validity of your statement.

The manner in your reasoning doesn't make any sense and makes your opinion hold less weight as a result.
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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by RedWood on Mon Jan 29th 2007 at 10:47pm
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The people that run the USA are very smart, and they do their best to keep as many people as stupid and ignorant as possible (like the people in that video) so they can maintain their seats of power and wealth (greed). Whats easer to control. A group of slaves seeking freedom or a group of slaves that don't know their slaves.
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by Stadric on Tue Jan 30th 2007 at 4:34am
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  • WAR IS PEACE
* FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
* IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by Naklajat on Tue Jan 30th 2007 at 9:05am
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It scares me that there are enough nuclear weapons in the world to COMPLETELY ANNIHILATE EVERYTHING ON THE FACE OF THE PLANET, many times over. It scares me that funding was cut from legitimate space exploration research and put into the weaponizing of orbital space (defensively of course :rolleyes: ). It scares me that people make millions upon millions of dollars from creating more efficient ways of killing people. It scares me that the world is walking awfully close to the edge of World War 3, and people could care less, they just want to hear about celebrities and watch TV and work at their 9 to 5 job to get little pieces of paper so they can buy their material happiness. It scares me that half of the world's monetary wealth is in the hands of a tiny fraction of the population, and the average Joe either doesn't know or doesn't care.

OK I'M DONE NOW.

o

Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by Juim on Tue Jan 30th 2007 at 1:07pm
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The video clip shows a very small cross section of people. I'm also sure he has plenty of footage of people who got the questions right. Have him walk throughout his own country and see the results. I'm sure he could come up with a 5 minute video of British folks answering questions wrong.
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by French Toast on Tue Jan 30th 2007 at 6:25pm
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You're right Baron Von Snickers, NOBODY CARES AT ALL.
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by fishy on Tue Jan 30th 2007 at 8:57pm
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French Toast said:
You're right Baron Von Snickers, NOBODY CARES AT ALL.
I do, and so do many others, so shut your legs please, there's a draught.
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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by DocRock on Tue Jan 30th 2007 at 9:21pm
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French Toast said:
You're right Baron Von Snickers, NOBODY CARES AT ALL.
You're wrong, even though you may might have been being sarcastic. The people who do care are the ones who are called the 'tin-foil hat' wearers or the kooks because they put their necks on the line saying that people need to start to care, people need to take a step back, and take a deeper look at what's really going on around them.

I mean, how many of you know that Osama Bin Laden's brother was meeting with George Bush Sr the day before 9/11? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Laden_family#Business_connections_of_the_Bush_and_bin_Laden_families

Call me crazy, but I think this world we live in is on the brink of ruin. Pretty obvious with the wars and rumors of wars and evil corrupt politicians. Don't know if any of you guys have looked at the book of Revelation in the bible, but alot of that is coming true now. Just step back a minute and think. We are living in some truly evil times. Turn off your Brittany Spears video for a minute, and find a good 'true' news website instead of the paid-off big news stations like CNN or Fox News.

It's really too bad people don't care - because if they did, then probably alot of this evil wouldn't be as bad as it is. If people cared, then we might be living in a more peaceful time...and the United States of America wouldn't be headed toward destruction. Our democracy is in chaos, and so many people don't even know what is truly going on. It's sick.
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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by French Toast on Tue Jan 30th 2007 at 9:21pm
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Wow fishy, someone's sarcasm detector is broken.

The point is that everyone cares, and it's retarded and foolish and above all ignorant to suggest that nobody cares at all about the most pressing and obvious world issues. The thing is, most people have a lot more immediate problems. Everyone is afraid of WWIII breaking out, but more importantly, they need to gas up their car and buy milk for their Honeycomb.

So BvS, stop being so goddamn shortsighted and undermining the intelligence of everyone in the world.

EDIT: Doc, if you want to wear your tin hat and crawl under your bed clutching your knees and rock back in forth, do it in a different thread. We're all sick of your conspiracy theory bulls**t.
Pretty obvious with the wars and rumors of wars and evil corrupt politicians.
Dude, this is just retarded. In every level of government since the dawn of man there has been corruption. it's human nature, so don't start making it out like it's a new thing. And rumors of war? There have ALWAYS been wars. So this is all pretty standard, learn your f**king history.
Don't know if any of you guys have looked at the book of Revelation in the bible, but alot of that is coming true now.
Oh. I guess it's starting to paint a picture now...
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by reaper47 on Tue Jan 30th 2007 at 10:12pm
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Don't know if any of you guys have looked at the book of Revelation in the bible, but alot of that is coming true now.
:wtf: You mean like in pretty much every century in the history of mankind?

Honestly, is this a religious thing? Or was that just an argument to win the religious people over? I never realized that 9/11 conspiracies can be argued with the bible.
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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by fishy on Tue Jan 30th 2007 at 10:14pm
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sarcasm and arrogance are different beasts. just like spoonerisms don't always come from a shining wit.
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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by Bewbies on Tue Jan 30th 2007 at 10:37pm
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if you aren't a tin-foil-hat-wearer, the tin-foil-hat-wearer comment wasn't directed at you. i apply people to this category when they find a morsel of question in a buffet of facts, and cry foul.. bleh. all these rats nowadays, feverishly looking for these morsels, ignoring the already established facts of the matter. i wasn't going to point this out, but you got all defensive. sorry.
I mean, how many of you know that Osama Bin Laden's brother was meeting with George Bush Sr the day before 9/11?
osama was disowned by his family in 1994.. due to his radical views and thusly revoked citizenship from saudi arabia. fyi. also, not only his brother, but his father have had major business dealing with G.W., that have been on the up-and-up. these meetings were common, considering they've done business together. a tin-foil-hat-wearer (TFHW) would be one that ignores Osama's disassociation with his family, and focuses on bush's association with said family.
Turn off your Brittany Spears video for a minute, and find a good 'true' news website instead of the paid-off big news stations like CNN or Fox News.
paid-off big news stations? sorry, i should be getting my news from a moore reliable source, like moveon.org. look, media is a fact of life in this country, and there will never be complete fairness as far as reporting goes.. however, thinking that we're all being influenced by some dubious 'smoking man' via pay-offs to the media, is a TFHW's thinking.
It's really too bad people don't care - because if they did, then probably alot of this evil wouldn't be as bad as it is.
it's common for a TFHW to think he's the sole righteous person on earth.. the only one that sees the truth, the only one that cares. fight the good fight, though! we're all just so ignorant and careless. =(
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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by Stadric on Wed Jan 31st 2007 at 4:29am
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Here's a fact that some may not know:
Tin foil hats in fact magnify the electromagnetic wavelengths that would be used for mind control or monitoring.
God bless MIT students who can pass a class by allegedly wasting time.

As for corruption being ever-present throughout history, that's so true. Any historian, biblical scholar, or English professor will tell you that today's problems have been present for centuries.
Just look at Hamlet yelling at Ophelia from Hamlet.
Get thee to a Nunnery!

Because he thought she was trying to seduce him.
Look at Samson from the book of Judges, he was tricked by a corrupt woman.
And for the obligatory historical reference, the pre-revolutionary French government was corrupt enough to warrant a revolt, too bad they waited for the next king to come to power, and revolted while he was doing a good job. Bummer.

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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by RedWood on Wed Jan 31st 2007 at 5:17am
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Don't know if any of you guys have looked at the book of Revelation in the bible, but alot of that is coming true now.
O ya, well I saw Lord of the Rings in theater.

I think Osama was killed long before the invasion of Iraq. Probably got boomed and they never bother sending anyone the inspect the body/pile of mess (or something along that nature). Reason begin, if it was public knowledge that he was dead, Bush would have never gotten the "support" to invade Iraq. The public would have thought the job was done and probably gave a more resounding response of "NO" to the Iraq thing. Now they can't say they found him because they can't produce a body. Guaranteed someone outside the US administration would ask to see the corps.
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by DocRock on Wed Jan 31st 2007 at 3:40pm
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French Toast said:
Doc, if you want to wear your tin hat and crawl under your bed clutching your knees and rock back in forth, do it in a different thread. We're all sick of your conspiracy theory bulls**t.

Dude, this is just retarded. In every level of government since the dawn of man there has been corruption. it's human nature, so don't start making it out like it's a new thing. And rumors of war? There have ALWAYS been wars. So this is all pretty standard, learn your f**king history.
You ever known someone who didn't realize that they were about to step into the path of an oncoming car? All I'm saying is that it's pretty obvious that the world around us - and the country that we live in (in the USA) - is headed toward disaster and so many people are oblivious to it. They don't care. All I'm tryin to say is watch out. It isn't a joke.
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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by French Toast on Wed Jan 31st 2007 at 6:01pm
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Not really, you're going to narrowly avoid that disaster in '08, when you kick it's ass out of the white house.
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by Gwil on Wed Jan 31st 2007 at 6:17pm
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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by French Toast on Wed Jan 31st 2007 at 6:35pm
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Yeah well, it started off pretty bad when people started taking offense to some light-hearted jokes.
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by DocRock on Wed Jan 31st 2007 at 9:06pm
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French Toast said:
Yeah well, it started off pretty bad when people started taking offense to some light-hearted jokes.
Do you take it light-heartedly that the President of the United States lied four times in his address to the nation the other night? Do you take it light-heartedly that lying to the general public as President is an Impeachable Offense according to the constitution?

http://www.infowars.com/articles/bush/video_olbermann_fact_checking_the_president.htm
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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by French Toast on Wed Jan 31st 2007 at 9:43pm
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You god damn retard that's not what I"m talking about at ALL. I'm talking about the original purpose for the thread.

Christ, it's like discussing physics with a 3 year old.
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by Crono on Wed Jan 31st 2007 at 10:58pm
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Have you ever heard of this group of people who still believe the world is flat? They say that all modern (or ancient, depending on how you look at it) physics is propagated lies by the government. They even have their own physicists who "prove" these things. I would imagine their proofs don't involve anything conclusive ... like math.
Blame it on Microsoft, God does.
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by reaper47 on Wed Jan 31st 2007 at 11:51pm
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I think they're fake, Crono. But a nice idea :biggrin:
Why snark works.
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by RedWood on Thu Feb 1st 2007 at 12:46am
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Has anyone els hear of string theory? It's a very prominent theory that states that the entire known universe exists on a single flexible plane. (off topic i know)
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by French Toast on Thu Feb 1st 2007 at 2:45am
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Ever heard the theory of the Big Bang? What a joke! praise Jesus!
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by Crono on Thu Feb 1st 2007 at 4:58am
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I think they're fake, Crono. But a nice idea :biggrin:
I couldn't find a link to the actual group. But there is a group of people who follow that "logic". I remember going over it in some university courses. We also went over the whole "alien abduction" idea, where it originated from and a more feasible explanation other than what people's accounts are.

It's all in good fun, but there are groups that really believe this nonsense. If I knew the name I'd throw it up here, but it was years ago.
Blame it on Microsoft, God does.
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by French Toast on Thu Feb 1st 2007 at 5:03am
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I believe it's called the Flat Earth Society? They think that Newfoundland is one of the four corners of the Earth.
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by Stadric on Thu Feb 1st 2007 at 5:06am
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Blasphemers!! All of you!
The one true god/conspiracy theory!

The god is the flying spaghetti monster, and the conspiracy theory is the spaghetti monster cover-up.
http://www.randomfate.net/MT/media/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster.jpg
Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by Orpheus on Thu Feb 1st 2007 at 3:34pm
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My personal belief about the tug-o-war between Frenchy and Doc is.. You have two very opposite views and believe that nothing exists in between them. Neither of you seem aware that 99.967% of the rest of the world is in actuality "IN" that between and couldn't care less about either of your viewpoints.

/irony of the moment

The best things in life, aren't things.
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by French Toast on Thu Feb 1st 2007 at 5:40pm
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My personal belief is that you're wrong. Doc is just s**tting on the thread with all this conspiracy theory bullcrap.
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by DocRock on Thu Feb 1st 2007 at 5:58pm
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Orpheus said:
Neither of you seem aware that 99.967% of the rest of the world is in actuality "IN" that between and couldn't care less about either of your viewpoints.
Do you have any cold hard facts to prove that statement? I mean, how can you say something so blatantly untrue without anything to back you up? Have you read any polls anywhere or even researched beyond listening to Bill O'Reilly on the radio to say that? Cmon, Orph, don't participate unless you have something to base your opinion on, not just the local diner's opinions.

<DIV class=quotetitle>? posted by French Toast</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>My personal belief is that you're wrong. Doc is just s**tting on the thread with all this conspiracy theory bullcrap.</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext> </DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>It isn't a conspiracy theory. You know what the best conspiracy theory is about 9/11? It's that seven guys in caves got together and brought planes into towers and knocked them down. That's a laugh. You're tellin me that these guys were able to make NORAD stand down? </DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Have any of you researched anything beyond the droll of your local newspaper? Jesus, take a minute - hell, a second, to look up WTC7, the only building, not struck by a plane on 9/11 that collapsed in less than 7 seconds, and the building was 2 blocks away from the towers. You're a fckin conspiracy nut if you think that fire brought it down. It's PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE!</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Think about it. Seriously. SERIOUSLY!</DIV>
Condemnation without Investigation is the Highest Form of Ignorance!
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by Orpheus on Thu Feb 1st 2007 at 7:38pm
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Doc I really don't care but I would like to point out that I used my limited knowledge of Engineering to point out how or why the towers fell down.

The idea you have about it, isn't shared by me and I would also like to point out that you don't even have a limited Engineering knowledge to make a comment about them falling.

At best all you have is a limited bit of 3rd, or 4th party rumor.

Lastly, we all know that surveys and polls can be skewed. Last time I checked, the average yearly salary of the United States was 65,000 dollars per year. If that isn't a bunch of s**t, I'll kiss your ass. facts are as reliable as you want them to be.

/towers discussion

Frenchy, leave Doc alone. He will single handedly ruin the entire atmosphere around here if you keep it up. :evil:

The best things in life, aren't things.
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by DocRock on Thu Feb 1st 2007 at 8:28pm
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Orpheus said:
Doc I really don't care
That's too bad. I'd figure that with your military background you might want to stand up with some of your fellow veterans, and for your country, and fight for the freedoms that our for-fathers fought and won for us and gave us our freedom.

I see that you're a movie buff, Orph. Why don't you watch 9/11 Mysteries, then we might have a common subject to debate about. It goes into great details about the controlled demolition of the towers. Watch that instead of throwing cheap jabs at me and the past we had here which is not funny. I got over it. Too bad you can't.

This isn't about me and you, it's about what's going on around us. Research it. You have the internet at your disposal.
Condemnation without Investigation is the Highest Form of Ignorance!
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by Orpheus on Thu Feb 1st 2007 at 8:59pm
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Consider our history. Doc, I am trying ever so hard. When I say I don't care, it means I don't care what you think. Not the subject, just you. I care lots and lots about thee topic of the towers.

Your arrogance wouldn't have read it that way the first time so I had to clarify it. Now, I look like the ass.

Nice going. :rolleyes:

You have a s**tload of 3rd hand speculation. And STILL your ego won't let it rest. There was even an indepth real engineering reply, WITHIN this thread, and still you continue.

Yes, you have every right in the world to believe that someone did whatever to the towers, but give it a rest.

I cannot make that any plainer. The towers fell. Let the experts and the victims decide how, and why.

The best things in life, aren't things.
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by Stadric on Fri Feb 2nd 2007 at 1:21am
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Orph.

? quote:
Cuiquam in sua arte credenum

We must trust an expert in his own field.

I don't really like that philosophy. I'm not going to distrust someone 'just because', but I won't take it as the gospel truth unless they'll explain it to me.
The 9/11 conspiracy theories have been explained to me, as well as debunked, so I'm good on the subject. Still, I'll watch that 9/11 mysteries video.
Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by Nickelplate on Fri Feb 2nd 2007 at 3:16am
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Orph.

? quote:
Cuiquam in sua arte credenum

We must trust an expert in his own field.
<span style="color: lightblue;">Unless that person is a Christian, in which case we ought to ridicule that expert of his field.

9/11 was NOT a conspiracy, unless you count angry muslims in caves a conspiracy.

</span>
I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
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Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by Crono on Fri Feb 2nd 2007 at 3:21am
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Just to note, the 'act' in which is being described here would actually be a cabal, I believe. I mean, you've got this whole secret organization and everything, you might as well use the right term.

The attack was in fact, by definition, a conspiracy, since there was a large radical group responsible for it.
Blame it on Microsoft, God does.
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by Stadric on Fri Feb 2nd 2007 at 3:52am
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The WTC structural engineer in the video said that the towers were designed to withstand a fully-loaded Boeing 707 crashing into one of them at low speed, then the female narrator in the video said that the Boeing 707 and 767 have comparable weights, but she also said that the 767 was going much faster, and didn't follow up on that.

From the video:
Airplanes only carry the fuel load they need
That's not true, they carry extra in case of emergencies, that's one of the reasons why planes dump fuel if they need to make an emergency landing. If a plane had only enough fuel to get where it's going, they would never dump fuel before making an emergency landing at or near their intended destination, since they would be almost out anyway, or they would at least dump very little fuel, which they don't.

"The towers were designed to withstand 140mph gusts of wind."
Cruising speed of a Boeing 767: 540 mph, and these planes were going faster than cruising speed.

The video mentioned several large office buildings with steel frames that had burned for hours and not collapsed. To be fair, none of those buildings had been hit by a plane, and none of them had any jet fuel involved with the blaze.
The maximum burning temperature of the most common commercial jet fuel is 980 ?C (Jet fuel JET A-1), we can assume something close to that number, since it was concentrated and localized in the explosion.
Polyurethane is probably the most common office product that burns at a very high temperature (371-427?C). Obviously there's a difference between a fire caused by a cigarette in a trashcan that spreads to some computers and upholstery, and a fire fueled by heavy-duty kerosene.

Where are the cores at ground zero?
I dunno, probably amidst the wreckage, I mean, they did fall, that's the message you're trying to convey to me, right?

On the subject of intense heat damaging structural steel, no one interviewed mentioned such heat.
Is it inconceivable that anyone who encountered burning jet fuel wouldn't live to tell the tale?

A rough estimate based on Google Earth for the location of the camera man at the 14:30 mark in the video places him around 336 meters from the 65 floor of the WTC. The speed of sound is 344m/s, so there would've been a delay of almost one second between him seeing the collapse, and him hearing it. That is an interesting point, but it isn't necessarily grounds for an explosion. There could be any number of things going on inside the building that could've caused that type of sound, that would've projected the sound before we saw the results on the outside of the building. After all, the buildings were centered around an internal steel frame, which could collapse and shoot out sound waves before spewing rubble outside of the building.
As for the popping sounds heard, that's most likely windows exploding from compressed air, not all of the windows were broken with the initial impact.

That's my response to the first fifteen minutes of the video, it only took me two and a half hours (with research). I may continue with the rest of the video, but it is getting late.
Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying
Re: A message frrom the great and wise John Cleese Posted by French Toast on Fri Feb 2nd 2007 at 4:52am
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Frenchy, leave Doc alone. He will single handedly ruin the entire atmosphere around here if you keep it up. :evil:
Yeah I know. It's just oh so hard to restrain the fist of death.