dod_dayofdays

Hey All, once again I have started another DOD map, this one based around the Brecourt Manor installation assault as seen in Band of Brothers episode 2, Day of Days. (The name is still to be decided, as dod_dayofdays is taken)

Anyone who plays DOD will probably be wondering why I'm doing this map, as just recently a map of the same theme has been circulating. If you have played the map then I needn't explain myself. To be perfectly frank it is a gaudy, poorly constructed, poorly researched, poorly textured monstrosity of a map, doing little credit to Band of Brothers, the actual location or the men who fought there.

Hence my map, which will attempt to write the wrongs, by replicating as accurately as possible not only the Band of Brothers episode, but the actual historical data.

Here are some preliminary screens of the first two guns and the beginning of the installation. The actual installation was located in one long field, but to allow for R's I have divided the field in two. This is still a work in progress, but I am very pleased with how it looks so far.

I love this. Very good job. I loved that episode.

yes, this looks like a band of brothers location. but i recall some sort of half-bunker.

as you said its a early wip, but it still looks promesing, i like how you rounded the edges of the trenches.

Well, there are some obvious misalignments with the sandbag textures. But like most of your maps they look nice, but just don't strike me as ever being much of a map to play.

Well Gorbachev, with this map I'm going to attempt a more playable layout while at the same time keeping as true to the actual location and historical data as possible.



Here is a rough layout of the map I knocked up. It's still under work of course, but yuo get the basic idea of layout etc.

red boxes are houses/barn, circles with crosses are main guns, circles are mg pits, lines connecting are trenches.

There are two spawns for the germans, first spawning in the barn, closer to the first main guns, but when they are destroyed they start to spawn at the manor. The hedge/gap in the middle was added by me as a vis blocker, and the laneway and barn at the bottom were also added by me for connectivity and the spawn system. Apart from those it's fairly accurate. There should be enough connectivity to allow for variety in play (which is what pegasus lacked), yet it sticks to most of the historical fact.

Well to "right" one wrong I would have to say change "write" to "right" (sorry I'm an ass couldn't resist). Other than that map is looking good keep it up. That was a good episode btw.

If it's going to be generally open like that be sure to make enough rolling in the hills to give MGs a chance. A pit is nice, but not if it's exposed too much. Be conscious about the knolls and where you've placed them.

These shots show the lay of the land a bit better. I think the problem with many DOD maps is that often it is too easy for an MG to control the map. I've played online where it was literaly impossible to move forward due to the other team placing a number of MG's around the place. There's nothing wrong with that of course, but it can get a bit tedious and annoying.

The ground is fairly open in the map, allowing for good fields of fire for MG's. The distance factor also makes it somewhat better for MG's, who aren't on the firing line as much. As the new screens show however, it isn't biased towards them. There are tenches for safe movement, and plenty of mortar craters for cover when moving over open ground. The distance also works against the MG's, as they are less accurate over distance. Over all the effect should be that the MG's can cover the map with a fair amount of accuracy, but not enough so they dominate the map.

The cfg file will also limit the player classes to even it out further, with no snipers allowed on either team. The axis will have 4 MG's, compared to the allies 2. The axis will have no heavy assault and a limited number of unterofficers, where as the allies will have a limited number of heavy assault.





This Pic illustrates the use of craters for gaps in hedge rows, allowing for some cover when running through.

Reminds me of a call of duty map.

I am also claiming the name dod_brecourt for the map, as I could find no existing dod maps with that name. So if anyone was thinking of using it, tough. :biggrin:

Looks a lot like the map dod_dayofdays

i suggest you play it on a server (if you can find it) and try to fix the problems that it has. it looks very nice but doesnt play that great.

EDIT: err.. i guess i should read the top before i post. seems you HAVE looked at the map and noticed the same things as me good luck

wow, looks like you will have fun keeping e_poly down :razz:

i hope its not a sniper/mg-fest like the original dod_dayofdays

Well I've eliminated snipers from it completely and have limited the number of MG's to a realistic amount, with 4 for the axis and 2 for the allies. However, with the large field of play, plenty of cover, long ranges and multiple paths, It'll be hard for MG's to dominate, unless they have a pro team of other players just to make sure they stay alive and in position.

As far as the epoly goes, its been surprisingly good, easily below acceptable levels. also the combined sky/brush wall in between each hedge does well to block out anything that isn't supposed to be seen.

One problem I have been having is that models disappear when the point entity is out of view. It looks a bit dodge, does anyone know how to fix it?

fog it up? :biggrin:

Give me r_speeds or give me death.

Well at the moment the R's are about 1200 w_poly, which is a touch high by some standards, but well below the 1500 limit I set for myself.

As this is a DOD map you'll find many maps that are around that mark, some official maps get to about 2000 w_poly in some places.

So far my vis blocking in the hedges seems to be working, so hopefully it shouldn't get too much higher than what it is already.

Agent Smith said:
One problem I have been having is that models disappear when the point entity is out of view. It looks a bit dodge, does anyone know how to fix it?

one way, which is a bit of a hack, would be to edit the origin of the model in milkshape. putting the origin high in the air, instead of ground level where you'd normally find it, can help a lot with this in openish areas.

that would require putting the models wiht your map in. that would make quite a big zip i think.

Agent Smith said:
As this is a DOD map you'll find many maps that are around that mark, some official maps get to about 2000 w_poly in some places.

clarify something for me, this is the HL engine running this mod.. correct?

seems, the newish generation owns this mod if its true..

please give me some good news and say "Nope, new engine, one that can run fine above 1000"

Orpheus said:

Agent Smith said:
As this is a DOD map you'll find many maps that are around that mark, some official maps get to about 2000 w_poly in some places.

clarify something for me, this is the HL engine running this mod.. correct?

seems, the newish generation owns this mod if its true..

please give me some good news and say "Nope, new engine, one that can run fine above 1000"

Maybe DoD is designed to have a higher W_poly limit? (is it?)

DoD is designed with higher spec computers in mind than Half-Life - it
is the same engine but it will run awfully even on some computers than
manage HL easily. By designing it this way from the start, they don't
have any fans who have become alienated by having the mod grow beyond
what their computers can handle, as something like CS would.

A map with 1500 w_poly will run just the same in DoD as it would in HL,
however most people playing DoD can put up with this sort of w_poly
because even the official maps of the mod have figures this high.

It is still preferrable to design maps to keep w_poly as low as
possible, but its not unexpected to see them over 1000 in this mod.

forgive me, thats a bunch to process all at once..

lemme get this straight, a slideshow effect map, is what one compares others against for this mod? and, this mod is popular?

i'm sorry, that concept just doesn't do it for me, there has got to be another explanation.. i just cannot imagine people, (other than you-know-who's groupy buds), accepting such poor standards.

high end computers..untill recently, few were much higher than mine, and mine still balks at 1500+ :sad:

/me feels sorry for people with such low expectations.

Most PC's seem to be able to handle 1500 w_poly nowadays, in DOD at least, I know mine can without a hitch, and its only midrange. I think the thing with DOD is that it requires a higher level of detail and realism, as its portraying real events. People are willing to suffer a tiny amount of lag or lower than perfect frame rates to experience something thats as real and as involving as possible. Unfortunately WW2 didn't take place in concrete corridors. :biggrin:

Agent Smith said:
Most PC's seem to be able to handle 1500 w_poly nowadays, in DOD at least, I know mine can without a hitch, and its only midrange. I think the thing with DOD is that it requires a higher level of detail and realism, as its portraying real events. People are willing to suffer a tiny amount of lag or lower than perfect frame rates to experience something thats as real and as involving as possible. Unfortunately WW2 didn't take place in concrete corridors. :biggrin:

don't get me wrong here, i feel that realism is paramount if the theme requires it, BUT if the engine cannot cope, then you postpone the map till you find one that can.

saying a pc can handle 1500 so offhandedly is very... it goes against all my principals of proper mapping techniques.. PC's cannot handle them any more now, than last year, nor the year before.. What has changed is people.. People have so little to chose from that they have dropped their standards to a level that accommodates 1500+

the only constant throughout these 5 years is... the HL engine. PC's grew, people altered their outlook but the engine is exactly the same.

flog,flog,flog

hear it.. we're doing it again.. sighs

play your mod, you have little choice ATM.. you do however have my complete sympathy.

/me runs off to test the r_speed levels in some official DoD maps...

ReNo said:
/me runs off to test the r_speed levels in some official DoD maps...

please do, but.. since i don't play it, everything i have said.. is moot.

Well the beach on dod_charlie is constantly above 1000, but seems to
peak around 1300. I checked about 4 other maps and couldn't find
anything more than a fraction above 1000. If some of the maps do hit
1500, its very rare.

I don't know, I could be wrong. To tell you the truth the constant delays of HL2 have really f**ked me over. I was hoping for a release ages ago, and had all these great ideas for maps, but with the delay I've been trying to create them in HL with little success. The engine is just too old for what I need to do.

I've been learning UnrealEd and am attempting radiant, but the problem is these games (COD, UT... well maybe not UT) don't seem to have the same lifespan as HL.

Paralaxion was a map idea I was going to do for HL2, and as you all know the R's weren't too high, but were really pushing the limits. Pegasus didn't even start out as a map to be released, I was just getting warmed up to make a pegasus bridge themed map for DOD source.

Now it looks like there won't even be multiplayer for HL2, what the hell is happening?

I've never had any problems running DoD. Even back when I had completly lower specs. They may have optimised some of the engine code to get some of the effects they have and speeds, But I'm not sure.

Agent Smith said:
Well I've eliminated snipers from it completely and have limited the number of MG's to a realistic amount, with 4 for the axis and 2 for the allies. However, with the large field of play, plenty of cover, long ranges and multiple paths, It'll be hard for MG's to dominate, unless they have a pro team of other players just to make sure they stay alive and in position.

As far as the epoly goes, its been surprisingly good, easily below acceptable levels. also the combined sky/brush wall in between each hedge does well to block out anything that isn't supposed to be seen.

One problem I have been having is that models disappear when the point entity is out of view. It looks a bit dodge, does anyone know how to fix it?

The model issue shouldn't happen in Steam. It renders different than the old engine. (i.e. when you're testing single player) In Steam it renders by bounding box, WON was by origin.

Thanks Gorbachev, when I test after a quick progress compile I generally use the old WON system, it tends to be a bit quicker. I'll check it out in Steam, thanks a lot :smile: .

cool foliage but it lacks some cool features, such as houses, watertowers etc

Yeah, it's taken me a while to get hedge's looking right. Nothin' worse than a hedge that looks like its a flat image on cardboard cutout or something. There are some barns and cottages to be added, but unfortunately as this is the countryside, there aren't really many occaisions for the inclusion of water towers :biggrin: .

ReNo said:
DoD is designed with higher spec computers in mind than Half-Life - it is the same engine but it will run awfully even on some computers than manage HL easily. By designing it this way from the start, they don't have any fans who have become alienated by having the mod grow beyond what their computers can handle, as something like CS would.

A map with 1500 w_poly will run just the same in DoD as it would in HL, however most people playing DoD can put up with this sort of w_poly because even the official maps of the mod have figures this high.

It is still preferrable to design maps to keep w_poly as low as possible, but its not unexpected to see them over 1000 in this mod.

Something doesn't sit right.. O_o I have a computer that can blast me to the moon and back, and yet, I get extreme lag in HL1 when my w_poly hits 900. Why? :dorky:

Several reasons, too many to list every possibility.

Steam being one of the big ones nowadays, resource eating mismanagement crapola thing that is :razz:

Its probably because you have many programs running. Such as a browser, or p2p client at the same time as steam. But, yeah, steam is a hog. largest consumer on my computer besides games.

G.Ballblue said:

ReNo said:
DoD is designed with higher spec computers in mind than Half-Life - it is the same engine but it will run awfully even on some computers than manage HL easily. By designing it this way from the start, they don't have any fans who have become alienated by having the mod grow beyond what their computers can handle, as something like CS would.

A map with 1500 w_poly will run just the same in DoD as it would in HL, however most people playing DoD can put up with this sort of w_poly because even the official maps of the mod have figures this high.

It is still preferrable to design maps to keep w_poly as low as possible, but its not unexpected to see them over 1000 in this mod.

Something doesn't sit right.. O_o I have a computer that can blast me to the moon and back, and yet, I get extreme lag in HL1 when my w_poly hits 900. Why? :dorky:

Really? I can get up to 1300 without significant fps drops and I run a pretty old system:

1 ghz pIII mobile; GeForce2 go 32 MB; 256 MB PC100 SDRAM. Anyway...

I think the R's on the beta maps for DoD were much higher. I seem to recall a peak of 1800 on the normandy map. This is probably where the high R's impression comes from.

Just out of curiousity, what is everyone's idea of good fps? Mine is 60.. Maybe it's because I have good eyes and can spot a frame drop when it hits 50.0, or maybe HL is just screwin with me.

It has to get below ~40 FPS before I can see any difference. It probably depends at least partly on the monitor you are using, etc.

I get about 50 usually, I think about at 18fps you'll notice some laggy models.

Don't listen to people who say "OMG!!11 I can get teh 200fps in CS w00t", If your monitor is set to 60 or 70Hz that's the best bet (taking that you're running at 60fps).

(An easy way to think of it is to remember that 1Hz = 1 1/s or 1 s^-1)

that normandy map was called dod_overlord and it was the best dod map ever!

It was also called Charlie and Normandy in several versions of DoD. But by far Overlord was the best version.

And how could anyone forget Dog1, by far one of my favorite maps from the early beta's.