Bowling for Columbine

I just saw this movie, and all I can say is WOW. It raised a lot of interesting points for us living in america..Are we gun nuts, or just nuts? He discussed the Columbine tradgedy and such. Another thing is that, only about 400 people are killed by guns in germany a year, 300 in france, 98 australia, 69 in Canada, and 11,954 in america.

Pfttt. They just aren't trying as hard as us.

/joking.

JOIN this group.. it will tell you what I think of this man..

http://evil.dizzy-girl.net/

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Im a card holder in this club..

Moneyshot, I feel for your hate against him and such, but I thought his movie was damn funny.

So, ya know =/

Good movie, but there's more to American gun crime than he displays IMO

He also doesn't point out the population differences between the United States and those European countries

Vash said:
I just saw this movie, and all I can say is WOW. It raised a lot of interesting points for us living in america..Are we gun nuts, or just nuts? He discussed the Columbine tradgedy and such. Another thing is that, only about 400 people are killed by guns in germany a year, 300 in france, 98 australia, 69 in Canada, and 11,954 in america.

European???????

I'd like to see those numbers as per capita. I have no doubt that european countries have a lower rate of gun deaths, but not that much greater. you have to consider that germany is only about the size of oregon (geographicly)

Those arnt EXACT numbers..I`ll get the exact ones later.

Well, they dont have gun crimes, but they do have much higher robbery, rape, murder rates than we do. See in America if you break into a house, grandma will blow your head off and worry about the cleaning in the morning.. After the police have carted your dead body off..

Over there, they just break in.. stab ya to death and take your stuff.. no worries about a gun toting grandma..

I did read some where that crime was higher in the countries he mentioned, compaired to the good ol USA.. I have and Idea.. lets pack him in a box, ship him to one of them other countries, and see how long he lives talking smack about the country he is in now.. I am betting 1 hour..

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When his facts and statistics are actually real, they pose an absolutely amazing (and unrefutable) view on the issues he discusses... however, he himself slants his information/strategically places or mention it in order to present his clear bias...

It's definitely a worthwhile movie, with some really interesting and disturbing parts. The real failing of the movie is the way he 'takes sides' at the end. It was just dumb. Most of the people he was against in the movie came off looking like psychos and idiots without any help from him.

He's certainly right about one thing: Americans are paranoid, fear-driven freaks. The problem is, he links the gun-violence to these cultural factors... but then turns around and focuses on the ease with which you can get guns. Doesn't quite fit.

But meh. No one needs a f**king assault rifle to hunt deer, much less needs it without waiting a couple weeks to be sure they aren't psychos.

LMFAO, I wonder how NRA wackos would respond if Al-Queda operatives got machineguns easily through weak gun-control laws and killed a bunch of people. That would be morbidly funny.

Where does it say the right to bear arms, have to be used to hunt with?

The right to bear arms, is so the United States can call to Arms every American in a time of War, or invasion. To form a Militia and to kick the buttocks of any invading army. ( like Red Dawn - Great Movie )

Why does a person who has a gun paranoid? I have done many jobs in my life, one of them was a Fire Arms instructor for the Rod & Gun club at Fort Bliss.. I also have a conceal gun permit, and carry a .357 colt python with me.. im not paranoid.. I'm quite secure. I have also been a body guard, a security officer, and a Private Eye. I was also in the US Military. So I have been around Guns alot.. you'll find most gun owners are far from paranoid, crazy, or stupid.. Its the F**K that gets the gun on the balck market that you have to worry about.

Well, even with very strick laws, Terrorist can get guns on the black market and still do as you say.. We dont have to have check points at every state line, like the countries over the big pond..

JINX I have to guess your not American.. because if you were, you would of never made such an ignorant statement as saying all Americans are Paranoid, fear-driven freaks.. Guess you'll never know what Freedom is all about. Sad..

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What I got from the movie, was that there is some parallell between violence, and the american media-mindset. I liked how he compared Canada to the US, and the only difference, really, was our perception of violence and fear. Obviously, Americans aren't all fear driven freaks....but man, watch the news and all you see are negatives. We get off on conflict, and fear...or at least it sells movies, TV, games, books. Now I don't think that you can say "this game made little Johnny kill someone", but I think that a society saturated with negative images, thoughts, ideas, from every angle of the media is bound to act out in some way. You are what you eat...mentally and physically.

I haven't had a TV for 2 years, and quite honestly, I don't miss it.

Rumple said:

Vash said:
I just saw this movie, and all I can say is WOW. It raised a lot of interesting points for us living in america..Are we gun nuts, or just nuts? He discussed the Columbine tradgedy and such. Another thing is that, only about 400 people are killed by guns in germany a year, 300 in france, 98 australia, 69 in Canada, and 11,954 in america.

European???????

cough missingtheclosercountrywho'samerica'snorthernneigbour cough

In Canada we have something like 35 million people, America is what 500 Million? But ratio wise that's still not even close.

America = 0.000023908% of the population killed by guns per year.

Canada = 0.000001971%

That's still a very poor ratio.

MoneyShot said:
Where does it say the right to bear arms, have to be used to hunt with?

The right to bear arms, is so the United States can call to Arms every American in a time of War, or invasion. To form a Militia and to kick the buttocks of any invading army. ( like Red Dawn - Great Movie )

Why does a person who has a gun paranoid? I have done many jobs in my life, one of them was a Fire Arms instructor for the Rod & Gun club at Fort Bliss.. I also have a conceal gun permit, and carry a .357 colt python with me.. im not paranoid.. I'm quite secure. I have also been a body guard, a security officer, and a Private Eye. I was also in the US Military. So I have been around Guns alot.. you'll find most gun owners are far from paranoid, crazy, or stupid.. Its the F**K that gets the gun on the balck market that you have to worry about.

Well, even with very strick laws, Terrorist can get guns on the black market and still do as you say.. We dont have to have check points at every state line, like the countries over the big pond..

JINX I have to guess your not American.. because if you were, you would of never made such an ignorant statement as saying all Americans are Paranoid, fear-driven freaks.. Guess you'll never know what Freedom is all about. Sad..

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Or what propaganda is... listen to many of Bush's statements for example, he emphasises freedom as being threatened by countries that aren't actually threatening, but as soon as the mention of "They're taking our freedom" out come the flags...and guns. What has been done in say, North Korea? They outright were showing their nuclear weapon capabilities and are a communist country that opposes the states. For those reasons I'm glad that the leader of my country does pretty much nothing.

deja vu?

Let's take this topic off of the concept of american freedom. I think we clarified back in september that it's an endless argument that shouldnt be argued between americans and non-americans. tigers and dragons...

Anyway...

"Right to bear arms.."

Anyone who has taken highschool american government can tell you what is meant by this. This is the right to take up arms and abolish the government. And seeing as how this hasn't been "magic-markered-out" yet, it should still stand. As long as we are under the government, we have the right to bear arms and be prepared to abolish it. Do i agree with it? No.

The intense gun death rate in comparison to other countries

I wish i could give yall a good reason for all the gun deaths here in US, but i cant... but i can give you a few excuses! First off, there's the size of our population. The deathcount comparison is live data, not ratio. I'm sure yall know this =P

Also, there's the environment. How many gun deaths do we have here in southern cali? A HELL OF A LOT! How many do we have in our upper, less crowded states? Probably as much as our backwards neighbor canada. Looking at the deathcount for the country as a whole is like looking at the deathcount for los angeles, vegas, new york, and miami. All too often, people look at these cities and see 'america'. This is not true. In these certain cities, we are all crammed into crowded apartments, schools, streets, and workplaces. Not only that, but we have 2 seasons... summer and winter. (3 months summer, 1 month winter). Ever been in a really crowded situation while being extremely hot and sweaty? Makes you pretty irritable.

BUT... Like i said, i cant really defend the US. We really are gun-toting folk. My family has never owned a gun, and never will. None of us have been shot, either. All these statistics do is give non-americans the wrong impression about what the AVERAGE american is like.

The US has nowhere near half a billion people. Not long ago it was 250,000 and now it's more around 275,000. Saying well we have more becauswe we have so many more people here is complete nonsense. Round germany to 400 and the US to 10,000 deaths per year, that means the US would need 25 times as many people as germany for the stats to be acceptable, when in fact it only has about 3 times as many.

One of the positive aspects of these SnarkPit "American gun threads" is that they demonstrate to us outsiders that not all Americans are flag-waving, propaganda-spewing, ideologically bankrupt semi-morons.

scary_jeff said:
The US has nowhere near half a billion people. Not long ago it was 250,000 and now it's more around 275,000. Saying well we have more becauswe we have so many more people here is complete nonsense. Round germany to 400 and the US to 10,000 deaths per year, that means the US would need 25 times as many people as germany for the stats to be acceptable, when in fact it only has about 3 times as many.

That sounds a little better population wise, I didn't check...but that makes the ratio twice as bad.

You know a shocking statistic,

80% of burgalars get in through windows and doors that dont get locked.

Tony Martin shot a burglar who he was waiting for, the burglar died, and he got sent to prison for the shooting. He claimed he had been burgaled a ridiculous amount of times, however, he knew they were breaking in, why not take measures I.E Lock your windows!

I don't know the stats for the US, but if they are anything like ours then simply locking doors and windows would help reduce self defence shootings!

Notice the statistic was gun deaths, not gun crimes, things can be done to prevent the use of guns, not necessarily the ownership of them! (Although personally I think all hand guns at least should be banned, but thats just a personal opinion)

Oh my god this has been up so many times.

Thats why I hate this forum sometimes, to much emotions floating around. I cant stand it. Im not gonna tell my view on this but Im sure many of you remember it from the 3242 earlier threads...

azelito said:
Oh my god this has been up so many times.

Thats why I hate this forum sometimes, to much emotions floating around. I cant stand it. Im not gonna tell my view on this but Im sure many of you remember it from the 3242 earlier threads...

That problem isn't unique to this forum, you seem to lay so many common stumbling blocks of internet discussion as unique to this forum. It simply isn't true, this is just humans disagreeing and arguing. It just so happens the participants always seem to be in the age groups (ie angry young teens, ideological young teens or old and wise) which love to argue.

It happens all over the internet, get over it.

I think it's quite funny- if you haven't forgotten all about whatever it was you were arguing about 2 minutes after leaving, you have problems :wink:

down with the english government, Anyone with a heart will feel sorry for tony martin. The police wont help you unless it involves murder or "serious" crime. Its not his fault he eventually grew insane enough to shoot the bloke.

You overestimate the police. They just dont help at all :smile: (my experiences in the past month testify to their complete and uselessness)

MoneyShot said:
The right to bear arms, is so the United States can call to Arms every American in a time of War, or invasion.

Are you fkn serious? You think the US Government is gonna let you use your own gun if they call you up to war? The law is totally irrelevant now.

On the radio about 3 weeks ago, they announced the results of a world wide study, the results were that the average in the Western world, regarding number of people with access to a firearm was about 1 in 5. In the US the average is 2 in 3 people have access to a firearm.

Consider in this statistic that in the US, many people have access to high powered firearms, asault rifles and the like. Where as here in Australia, if you got your hands on a pistol you'd be doing well. Our government says a farmer simply don't need an automatic assault rifle with a custom made 200 rnd magazine to shoot a fox, and I happen to agree.

I don't think much of Michael Moore though.

Bewbies said:
but we have 2 seasons... summer and winter. (3 months summer, 1 month winter). Ever been in a really crowded situation while being extremely hot and sweaty? Makes you pretty irritable.

LOL... Sydney has 1.5 seasons, Summer and not quite summer but still pretty hot. Unless you live in the suburb of campelltown, gun deaths are rare as hens teeth.

It's not really the Police's fault, it's law, political correctness, the media, etc...

Gwil said:

azelito said:
Oh my god this has been up so many times.

Thats why I hate this forum sometimes, to much emotions floating around. I cant stand it. Im not gonna tell my view on this but Im sure many of you remember it from the 3242 earlier threads...

That problem isn't unique to this forum, you seem to lay so many common stumbling blocks of internet discussion as unique to this forum. It simply isn't true, this is just humans disagreeing and arguing. It just so happens the participants always seem to be in the age groups (ie angry young teens, ideological young teens or old and wise) which love to argue.

It happens all over the internet, get over it.

Trust me Gwil, it doesnt have to be like this on a forum. Im on several forums where they never talk about politics, its wonderful. When I come on SnarkPit I usually wanna see some maps and digital masterpieces not some silly propaganda for wearing guns.

I know, I should just ignore these topics but this is who I am. Dont argue with me.

Thylacine said:
Consider in this statistic that in the US, many people have access to high powered firearms, asault rifles and the like. Where as here in Australia, if you got your hands on a pistol you'd be doing well. Our government says a farmer simply don't need an automatic assault rifle with a custom made 200 rnd magazine to shoot a fox, and I happen to agree.

Yea... and our economy is supported by microsoft and mcdonald's, right? OH YES oh yes.. and we are hell-bent on converting the entire world into a market ecnomony, huh? Lock up your businesses and chain down your culture, americans are coming to town! I'm thinking that one of my old quotes would go well here...

Do you think that what you see on TV is america? Because if you do, you're just as impressionable and stupid as the kids in this thread: http://www.snarkpit.com/forums.php?forum=1&topic=121

Bewbies, how can you disagree with what Thycaline said? He said you dont need an assault rifle to shoot a fox... and you go off on one talking about... well I'm not really sure actualy.

As for Tony Martin, it's all very well saying we should feel sorry for him, and that it's so terrible it took him murdering somebody to get the police's attention, but but then you are forgetting that he shot a teenager in the back, then did nothing as he blead to death. The fact that he is out of jail already is a joke.

I was talking about his misconception that we all have easy access to assault rifles. I suppose i over-dramaticized (sp?) it a bit =P

I see some of you talkin about america and its propaganda machine. Do you even notice your own? The constant misrepresentation of american life in foreign countries... that's not propaganda? Thylacine, do you HONESTLY think that we have such easy access to the powerful weapons that you're talking about? Because we dont.

I wish gollum, gorb, or korn would post more.. they seem to be the only reasonably informed 'blokes'. =D

I know this much, living in Australia I don't have to worry about getting shot :smile:

Er... I was an american last time I checked, and I can't recall ever haveing been worried about getting shot...

yes it is easier to get firearms in america, but let me make this point clear: automatic weapons are not leagal in the USA, and contrary to the movies, are in no way easy to obtain. I havn't ever attempted to obtain one so I could be wrong about that last bit, but not by far.

Thylacine said:
a farmer simply don't need an automatic assault rifle with a custom made 200 rnd magazine to shoot a fox,

He does if he carn't shoot a bus from 10 feet away :smile:

I am a mased the Tony Martin is out of jail already an I think that it was a very stupid way of getting the police's attention.

But I also know how hard it is to get there attention cos i was broken in to about 2 years a go and it took them about 2 hours to send someone out to us and we only lived 10 mins down the road and then they just about told us that we might aswell by new stuff cos they arnt going to get off there arse and look for the stuff.

scary_jeff said:
Bewbies, how can you disagree with what Thycaline said? He said you dont need an assault rifle to shoot a fox... and you go off on one talking about... well I'm not really sure actualy.

As for Tony Martin, it's all very well saying we should feel sorry for him, and that it's so terrible it took him murdering somebody to get the police's attention, but but then you are forgetting that he shot a teenager in the back, then did nothing as he blead to death. The fact that he is out of jail already is a joke.

Pffft, wrong or not, Tony Martin did the world a favour. Those guys had like 100 convictions each, unchangeable travelling scum. TBH the world is more than likely a better place without them!

I see some of you talkin about america and its propaganda machine. Do you even notice your own?

But Bowling for Columbine and Holywood are both american. We don't have shows saying "har har, look at teh silly americans!!1". All we get is the periodic reports of shootings in schools, cities, etc. If you don't think that america has worse gun crime than in other countries, you are a fool. If you think that letting everybody have the right to own a gun doesn't mean there are more people shot, you are a fool. The only way you can avoid being a fool is if you accept that more guns mean more people get shot, but also see that it just isn't possible for there to just suddenly be a law in america banning guns, it just wouldn't work. It's like asking a country to ban a certain religeon almost, it just wouldn't work.

So in my view, it should be obvious to anybody that there is a problem, but if you can come up with a workable solution then you will have done allot better than me.

Gwil it may well be that the kid was 'scum', but it is not for some irate farmer to appoint himself judge jury and executioner.

True, but you try getting the police to do something. We've had two crimes commited against our family in the space of a month, one serious assault on me which i mentioned before - and the next where our car was written off by an unlicensed, untaxed, uninsured and speeding driver. We also know the identity of the driver.

That was 2 weeks ago, nothing has been heard from the police camp. The assault was about 4 weeks ago now, and for that time the investigating officer has been on "nights" or "holiday" whenever I have tried to enquire about the cases progress.

It's this kind of failure coupled with the spiralling violent crime rates and rising population of morally devoid yobs thats leading to Tony Martin and so forth taking the law into their own hands.

If it isn't sorted soon, other people will be doing the same...

Bewbies said:
I was talking about his misconception that we all have easy access to assault rifles. I suppose i over-dramaticized (sp?) it a bit =P

I see some of you talkin about america and its propaganda machine. Do you even notice your own? The constant misrepresentation of american life in foreign countries... that's not propaganda? Thylacine, do you HONESTLY think that we have such easy access to the powerful weapons that you're talking about? Because we dont.

I wish gollum, gorb, or korn would post more.. they seem to be the only reasonably informed 'blokes'. =D

Mmm, propaganda machine. OK, the BBC is biased at times but then again, most of Americas international actions speak for themselves without needing to be explained or judged by any news agency. I think you'll find the world has a lot more gripes with America than just their gun laws... a lot more.

football holligans, yobs, street druggies. weve an excess of all of them. The country is a vicious mess to which we'l never sort it. I wish I was born elsewhere, this country is pretty awfull to say the least.

Far be it from me to wave the flag and sing the national anthem - I have no special love for this country, I've just been living here for some time and hold a UK passport - but I do think that attitude is a little unrealistic.

How about wishing you were born in Africa? Most African nationals would "kill for" a British passport (White South Africans excluded). Or maybe Bangladesh, where as I recall a large percentage of the population has their "homes" washed away on a regular basis.

There are many worse places you could be living. Much, much worse. I have plenty of sympathy for you KoRn, but poor is poor the world over; at least in this country we HAVE a welfare state.

Its only a wish goll, You have to accept whatever you get. There will always be someone worse off in the end, That doesnt mean I cant wish I didnt have to live here.

Theres no denying england is one of the most violent places to live for somewhere thats meant to be well off.

I lived in Holland for a few years, as a teenager, and got to travel over most of Central Europe, England, and a little bit of Eastern Europe. This experience was an eye-opening one, to say the least.

I love being an American, but honestly, there is so much about those places, that I miss, and wish I could easily revisit. Most of us are so blinded by our own culture, here in America, so Isolated - even though this is the 'melting pot'. I wish that all of middle-class America, would be required to live abroad for a few years. Make them visit places like India and Russia and experience the culture shock I did, when I saw what real poverty was. I came back home, with an appreciation for what we have here, that I didn't have before I left.

Like Gollum said. If you are sitting at your computer, typing about how bad things are, then I gaurantee, there are much worse places you could be.

of course m8, We wouldnt last 2 minutes in many other countries, But for a country thats meant to be so very well off. We are very far from being it.

Everyone moans about where they live now and again, Im not in poverty m8, We can survive here with the money we get just & thats good enough, But when it comes to the "outside world" there is a severe lack of police & any authority.

Its a very haunting experience to be beaten up in the street, It doesnt leave you. Again, we all complain now and again, Its natural.

I understand Korn. You witness some of the same issues here in America also. Look at all the obviously battered wives, who can't get any intervention from the law, until it becomes a life threatening situation. Or, corruption of the law; where the entity that is suppossed to protect you, ends up manipulating and abusing it's people.

thats a shame m8, domestics are taken very seriously over here, Were getting a new place built up here where women that experience it can find escape & problem solving.

Its only a wish goll, You have to accept whatever you get. There will always be someone worse off in the end, That doesnt mean I cant wish I didnt have to live here.

Absolutely. I didn't intend to say, "you have no right to complain" - you have every right, especially with street violence. And it's good to wish for something better - the first step to getting it :smile:

Discuss it all you want, but I dare you to find a country that is superior to America.

If you don't like our culture, please point to the nearest Utopia, and then I'll shut the f**k up, but until that time rolls around, please spare me your judgements on American society.

Now where's that flag picture...?

Cassius said:
Discuss it all you want, but I dare you to find a country that is superior to America.

If you don't like our culture, please point to the nearest Utopia, and then I'll shut the f**k up, but until that time rolls around, please spare me your judgements on American society.

Now where's that flag picture...?

That's exactly what I wanted to hear. Thanks Cass. Not intending to be assholish about it, but those are just the observations I've made. Having a stong support for your country is good, but having blind support isn't.