Snarkpit2

I suggest we beef up the origional snarkpit pitcrew map with custom textures, custom models, and higher details, and then release it for Half-Life 2.

1: Who all has participated in making it so far?

2: Who has the .rmf, etc at this time?

3: Who is up for spiffing up the map?

4: Who wants to do more mapping? Make models? Make textures? Test it out?

5: Other thoughts?

Put this in the mapping forum? :smile:

What horrible timing! I just finished a new beta of the map that has multiple fixes (minus the weapon and player_start placement) and was about to attempt to compile the bastard. I wanted to keep it secret so that if it didn't work nobody would have been disappointed. Oh well!

Here's my current changelog:

-orph- re-added the stairs he removed to eliminate a huge dead-end :biggrin:
-orph- texture alignments in the skylights
-orph- deleted some bush textured things in the big sign area as they looked strange and were unnecessary
-orph- changed the outside of the area to fix a bug that had brushes disappearing in the sky
-orph- found and corrected a number of slight brush errors that were a few units off
-orph- removed the passageway between the elevator and the sniping point because of view distance and r_speed problems
-orph- created a new hall that connects the elevator and sniping point but removes the above errors
-orph- lowered a window a little bit so we could see the pretty sign from the second floor
-orph- redid the clip brushes around the ceiling
-yak- fixed an insignificant texture error in a doorway
-yak- removed unnecessary lights in hallway overlooking Grimlock's outside area
-yak- moved a detail door to a different location
-yak- changed some stupid arcitecture in the first main room
-yak- changed a small part of the ceiling in the first main room
-yak- added a ladder in the first main room
-yak- changed the floor of the 'rockroof' room
-yak- texture fix in the connection room
-yak- added a sign to the connection room
-yak- texture fix in the back room
-yak- removed some lights in back room
-yak- added a sign to the back room
-yak- added teleporter sprites
-reno- fixed a sign in middle room so it wouldn't flicker
-a_s- fixed a sign in square room so it wouldn't flicker
-grim- fixed a sign in bowl so it wouldn't flicker
-grim- fixed a sign in machine room so it wouldn't flicker
-dietz- removed a clip brush that interfered with swimming, extended the floor in front of ammo room to compensate
-dietz- removed a clip brush that interfered with walking on the second level
-dietz- added clip brushes in all the small areas that players cannot reach
-dietz- he said at one point that the ammo room was supposed to be a teleporter, and I aim to please. The teleporter looks like the other two and they are set up to go yellow -> blue -> red -> yellow
-dietz- added teleporter sprite

The authors of this map are: Alien_Sniper, Dietz, Grimlock, Mazemaster, Orpheus, ReNo, Yak_Fighter

I have the last compiled .bsp, orph's last .rmf version, and my version with small but necessary changes. I also have the signs.wad that has all the plaques.

I personally would rather see the map finished for HL1 and then we make another one for HL2. I would think that enough of the map would have to be rebuilt to justify just redoing the whole thing.

Well that explains why I havent heard much of it recently. (-:

Anyways I guess its open for debate now whether to convert this for HL2, or leave it for HL1 and create a completely new HL2 map.

I agree with Yak - its near enough finished to do for HL1 in my opinion, and the changes needed to make it good for HL2 would require tearing the thing apart again. I'm all for another one for HL2 though :smile:

So much work has gone into this map; it should definitely be finished off and released for HL1. By all means make a HL2 sequel map too :smile:

The thing I like best about the map is the connectivity - which is quite an achievement for a joint project! Usually connectivity sucks on joint maps. The way you all spliced together large areas to allow rapid movement across the map reminds me of gmdm2 :heee:

Wouldn't you be tempted to participate?

Who knows?

gives look of mystery and intrigue and general non-commital-ness

My life is set to change pretty dramatically soon; I can't be sure whether I'll even buy HL2 or other new games, let alone whether I'll map for them. But I might....

Release it for HL1 ffs ... all that work ! :smile:

I say we should leave it for HL1. I'd like to go over my section though even if I only had it for a day or two. :smile:

Are you asking to relook at your section? It can be done.

EDIT: OK GREAT! I have created a leak, and all signs point to it being in a section I didn't touch at all. Yay!

In some good news I managed to figure out Orph's old compile settings (no thanks to him :biggrin: ) and found a quote that sums up my feelings:

"this map is right on the edge of how much I wanna deal with"

:smile:

There is a gigantic block in the middle of space that looks like its doing nothing. It touches nothing and is completely in the void. However, if you delete it a leak will be created, I kid you not. It probably effects the way the bsp is split up and causes a rounding error to be avoided. So yeah dont delete that.

Someone else here had a similar problem- creating a box inside their level in the middle of the air would stop a leak somehow. Turned out that deleting it altered the way a few floor intersections nearby were built (I guess like what Maze said), so I fixed the error just by simplifying things a bit (e.g. not vertex manipulating on small scales so much). Have you tried doing a pointfile on the map to find where the leak actually is, and fixing it?

Yak_Fighter said:
In some good news I managed to figure out Orph's old compile settings (no thanks to him :biggrin: ) and found a quote that sums up my feelings:

"this map is right on the edge of how much I wanna deal with"

:smile:

make me feel bad, but it won't work :biggrin: cause no one showed much interest in my hair pulling when i was tackling this monster

and that quote, looks awfully familiar

Alright, here's an editing question (and if anyone tells me to post this in the editing forum I'll kill you, as it's too specific and complex)

The most current version of the map when compiled either reports a leak in the bottom left hand portion of Reno's rockwork and then HLBSP crashes or HLBSP crashes outright. I searched this area to the best of my ability and there are no leaks, merely complex rockwork. I ran that leakmarker utility and it marked a leak in the same general area. I tried using the block method of compiling, but it just caused HLBSP to crash. I can't use the pointfile because no bsp is generated. I then took the entire room and copy-pasted it into a new map and compiled. It of course worked, but it reported two leaf portals saw into leaf errors in the same general area of the reported leak. So, can a leak be caused by this error? I doubt it, but I've been wrong before. Are these errors a possible cause or a contributing factor in HLBSP crashing? Should I bother fixing the errors for any reason other than faster vis times? (I noclipped up there and saw no HOM) Is HLBSP crashing because of the leak? EDIT: And no, I didn't delete those big random brushes on the outside of the map.

I rolled back to a slightly earlier version and instead of having HLBSP crash or it finding a leak I get Error: ReadSurfs (line 1): 7996 > g_numplanes. Now, I looked around the pit and the net and the causes are:
1. complex geometry
2. leak
3. max_map_planes
4. max_map_leaves
5. solids with over 32 faces
Now, according to the newer compile there's a leak or a leaf portals error (complex geometry). There's no 32+ faced solids. I'm betting that it's a map_max_plane problem. If I reduce the number of planes, will that fix the leak/HLBSP crashing? If I fix the leaf portal errors will that free up more leaves/planes and fix this problem? What do I do to reduce max_map_planes other than simplifying?

Am I looking at two or more problems or just one: max_map_planes?

1^st off, i have seen all this before.

2^ndly, did you see my other post about the combination of tools required?

3rdly, what are the tools and combination you are attempting to use?

4thly.. if you removed any of the clip brushes, even only a couple, you are condemning yourself to crashed compiles.

answer these questions and we can proceed to step B..

If you like, throw the map my way and I'll rebuild the rockwork from scratch. If it appears that is it this area causing the problems, chances are reworking it entirely might get rid of it.

Reno: I am fully confident that I caused these problems, as the section compiled for Orph before.

Orph:

2. I did, but I don't exactly understand. I have XCagey's and I went to look for these 2.5.3-17 tools, but the XCagey ones have the same version number as those...

3. I used XCagey's tools for all four.

4. I removed clip brushes, but I added some. I simplified the clips around your section and fixed a bunch of small (one or two unit) inaccuracies with some walls (and no, not where brushes were left 1 unit off to not split faces, I'm not that clueless). I did add a stairway and adjusted a hallway which may have put it over the top. In addition I went through and added a bunch of clips to Dietz's section that were overlooked before. I know of additional places I can clip if need be.

i am only sure of one thing, the rest you and i will have to re-sort out..

ok, what i am sure of, Xcagey's tools will not compile this map, not on all 4 steps.

what i am guessing is

253-17-csg
253-17-bsp
Xcagey-vis
253-17-rad

ok, this i am also sure, you cannot go backward, IE use Xcagey and the normal 253 tools, you must use the 17 build.

Xcagey only solved one issue, i am sure it was in vis, but it could have been rad :/

lastly, there are complete differences in the tools.. i can look for the 17 build if you like.. but if i can do it, i am confident you can as well.

answer this and we can proceed to step C

The 1.7 tools Orph refers to are Merl's most recent version of ZHLT's. XP-Cagey's are modified versions of Merl's tools.

Ok, apparently I have both 2.5.3 -17 and XP-Cagey's tools and have been running 2.5.3 -17 the whole time? Good to know.

Havent read through the whole tread.. To lazy :biggrin: , but I suggest PitCrew1 release the map for HL1. I mean, its going to be way to much work to adapt the map for HL2... When it comes out.

However, Im all for the PitCrews to continue mapping together for HL2.

Well you might have wanted to read the thread through because that reply was just plain stupid given what's being said here. :rolleyes:

Get a clue wildcard you crazy guy! :biggrin:

No sir! :biggrin: No clue given 'er

Is anyone going to take the map after me if Yak can get it to compile, or will my computer be the last to suffer? :smile:

If you guys need a strong machine, mine is up for grabs, lol. It stay idle all day while Im at school going through my whole song list ever 3 days

You leave your computer playing songs while you're at school?

Wild Card said:
If you guys need a strong machine, mine is up for grabs

actually nick, after you address all the errors, the map compiles rather well.. there are damned few architectural flaws to cause extra stressful compiling.

my 2.6 GHZ and 512 ram compiled it in less than 2 hours.. fairly astounding when you consider that it exceeds almost all the default limits :biggrin:

i am betting that yak has a machine capable as well.

thanx for offering, considering how many times i compiled your maps before you upgraded :heee:

ReNo said:
The 1.7 tools Orph refers to are Merl's most recent version of ZHLT's. XP-Cagey's are modified versions of Merl's tools.

Actually, there's a 1.8 somewhere. Don't worry, no VIS optimizations in it if I remember correctly anyway. Can't recall where I saw it though, I don't think it's released anyways.

Try checking strange / unorthodox brushes with lots of floating points. It might be considered valid by Hammer and the compiler, but it can still crash HL. Or at least in my experience, that's the case.

Orpheus said:
actually nick, after you address all the errors, the map compiles rather well.. there are damned few architectural flaws to cause extra stressful compiling.

Because of course the best mappers on SP have errors in their maps...

Orpheus said:
thanx for offering, considering how many times i compiled your maps before you upgraded :heee:

Well, it only seems fair, considering it must get bored all day.. Is why I leave the music running... to keep it busy :biggrin: ...erm... yea right.

Alien_Sniper said:
You leave your computer playing songs while you're at school?

Yes sir lol. Keeps the computer from overheating by lack of stuff to send to the CPU and RAM :biggrin:

It might be inconsequent but hard drives only last so long. I'd let it rest while you're at school to prolong its life. :smile:

:cool:

I eliminated the crashing/not compiling by the one-two combo of xp-cagey's tools and HLCC. I've got it down to one or three leaks and max_map_clipnodes. I even have a version that compiled all the way minus lighting and one of the rooms!

Once I clear up these issues I'm going to redo the outdoors snarkpit sign area, because damn, it needlessly increases r_speeds beyond my acceptable limits :biggrin:

PS, I've got a P1.4 with 512 megs ram and 2 gigs of swap space AND almost 20 hours daily when I can just let my computer sit there and compile.

Here's a few beautiful pictures:



This shouldn't be... just another error found while poking around. I have a whole new page of em to fix



The beginning!



New hallway in Orph's section



New stairs in Orph's section.

Oh my, the lighting needs work :sad:

You can see the legs of my snark in the third image. I'd forgottem I'd made that. :biggrin:

Yak, does this map have the old snarkpit logo rather than the new one? I just made the new logo into a wad in two different sizes (560x112 and 288x64) if you'd like them?

ReNo said:
Oh my, the lighting needs work :sad:

I thought he said the whole thing compiled except for one room and the lighting. Maybe thats why. It's not like Orph to overlook lighting... Me on the other hand :biggrin:

"Dude here's your map... but its pitch black" :rolleyes: Sorry Jon

ReNo said:
Oh my, the lighting needs work :sad:

Course it does, rad wasn't run :razz: There's plenty of lights everywhere, probably too many, but we'll see about that when I get everything else sorted out.

A_S, I can't tell. Post what you got here so I can see, pretty please?

http://www.snarkpit.com/pits/alien_sniper/files/snarkpit.zip

http://www.snarkpit.com/pits/alien_sniper/files/snarkpit_small.zip

Just this image in two sizes. One is nearly the same and the other is 1/4 the size.

A_S: Thanks, but I don't think I'll need it. I think the the big stickman billboard, the name signs, and the intro text are enough advertising :biggrin:



oh boy! :smile:

Woohoo, the pointfile is only briefly in my section, chances are its not that causing the problem :smile: And if it is, I blame Mazemaster since he worked on that bit too :razz:

I don't want to jinx it, but according to the latest compile attempt I fixed the leak. For some strange reason after looking at that maze for about 30 seconds one brush just jumped out at me. I moved it and two brushes underneath it and the leak disappeared. I'm certain it'll be back, as what are the odds the very first brush I looked into was causing the leak? The three brushes were 8 units wide in the bottom corner of Dietz's waterway, and there wasn't even a gap into the void anywhere... but my .lin and .pts files are 0kb, so I guess I win this round!

I also fixed the max_map_clipnodes I guess and instead got a max_map_models error. This map is great for learning the limits of the engine and how to fix it, too bad it's like 4 years late for me.

I just looked at a screenshot of my area, and I think it might be wise to add a teleporter to my part. As it is, its possibly the most linear section. In my outside room next to A_S's section, the ledge with the mp5 on it (not sure if thats still whats there) could have an entrace to a little teleporter room perhaps. Not sure if the map as much more potential for teleporters or not though.

I could easily make a green teleporter if need be. Once I get it to completely compile I can let everyone else run around it and give suggestions. Clipnodes won't be a problem anymore, as Orph overlooked a TON of tiny gaps and small unreachable areas. :biggrin:

stairs look nice yak.. /me proud of you :smile:

after a bit of sleep

this map caused me many hours of grief, let me jot a few things down, assuming i can recall them clearly enuff.. i do so in the hopes of sparing yak some of his own.

these things i jot, may not be 100% accurate, but i had to do them to get anything accomplished... if they are wrong, then they worked in spite of it being so.

1) using the clip brush to reduce the planes/nodes- you must encase the object within the clip brush for this to work, simply blocking its access off from the playing area is not enuff. this map is so over the default levels, that even one un-necessary brush exposed, will cause errors.. wrap everything as i had it before and it will work again.

2) the tools-Xcagey's tools are not godly, they are not fully intended for a map of this caliber'.. use the 17 build and slip the Xcagey tools in as needed.. as i said, i am sure that you only need it for vis.. its as simple as a setting in HLCC, just watch your compile log to be SURE which tool is being used at the time.

3) the lighting- it changed with each compile.. even when i changed nothing :sad: good luck.

4) sounds- i was at the end of adding them, the ambients were giving me hell, for some reason they failed to load repeatedly.. i was adding a random jet flyby when i gave up.. it would set this map off if you could manage it.

i hope some or all of these notes assist you yak... i'm off to Pittsburgh again, see y'all saturday..

Dear god people, get someone to retexture that thing (offers to do so himself as his contribution)

You can take it next if you'd like Lep. :smile:

Give me 3 weeks to get finals out of the way and I'd love to.