HL2 Deathmatch solution

As we all know (or for the optimists out there, as it
seems),
HL2 is not shipping with any multiplayer component other than CS:S. I
assume quite a few of you will be disappointed by this not only as you
wanted to play it, but also because it provides a nice avenue to learn
mapping and get releases out, or because you are primarily a DM mapper.

To rectify this, the folks from the Adrenaline Gamer mod are making AG2, and
hopefully it will become the new standard option for HL2 owners who
want some deathmatch action. You may not know of AG, but it is the most
popular HLDM gameplay mod and is used by most of HL's hardcore players,
particularly in Europe but also the US and elsewhere. This obviously
provides it with a solid base to become the obvious choice for HL2DM.

The point of this post is to let people know that if they want to do
some DM mapping for HL2, AG2 is probably the best option available to
you. I will be doing my DM mapping for the mod, and TommyD has shown
his interest as have a couple of others on the AG2 forums. You can
visit them to show your support, give suggestions for the mod, or let
them know you are wanting to map for it in the future.

http://www.adrenaline-gamer.com/forums/index.php

Their website is currently in development, but you can find out more about the AG mod for HL1 at its website...

http://www.planethalflife.com/agmod/

EDIT: Precizion has asked me to clarify that they are NOT looking for
people to apply for positions on the mapping team. This is just to let
people know that while there isn't a Valve made DM mode, there is one
in the works by the community, so if you have any good DM map ideas
there will be a mod to make them for.

Looks good. I just hope they make the basic DM mode as close to HL2 single player weapons/gameplay wise as possible, i.e. no extra or modded weapons and no strange alterations that allow people to do tricks they are able to do in HL1...

No offense, but the original Adrenaline Gamer was the most 2 dimensional mod ever. I certainly hope they don't equip the player with every gun in the game like they did in the original -- it ruins the death match effect.

No offense, but the original Adrenaline Gamer was the most 2 dimensional mod ever. I certainly hope they don't equip the player with every gun in the game like they did in the original -- it ruins the death match effect.

/Edit: EEEK. Sorry about the triple post. Pressed the submit button 2 times to many :\

No offense, but the original Adrenaline Gamer was the most 2 dimensional mod ever. I certainly hope they don't equip the player with every gun in the game like they did in the original -- it ruins the death match effect.

Triple post. Beautiful.

Anyway, if it lives up to its promises, I'll pump out a map for sure. :smile:

AG doesn't offer much because it isn't supposed to. It's single aim is to add more options to normal DM, with the hope of aiding competative play. The mode where you start with all weapons is just one of the AG modes. It's just like OSP for Quake 3.

Just wanted to pipe up, as a fan of the AG mod. I had nearly worn out DM, but agmod breathed lots of new life into things, when it came along; it also ramped up the level of skill by giving people a more competitive environment. Just playing ag for a few months made me a much better fighter. The arena mode, where you start with all weapons and challenge the top layer, may be a somewhat shallow game mode, as there is no stocking, or item control; but it is a great place to just practice basic weapon proficiency and core fighting strategies. Most people leveled themselves up in arena mode, then took those skills on to more serious DM or TDM environments, anyway. mmmmm... ok, now i want to play.

Hm, AG was okay. I just felt that there wasn't enough community support for it, however I will be watching AG2 closely.

I checked out ag breifly for hl1, there was a main flaw in it

Forcing low definition models :o

Please dont include that feature as compulsory on servers, if not, i may have to find a mod team/ learn to code to remake deathmatch! i do not want a mod with lots of forced to be enabled stuff.

Also, i reckon there could be hl2dm as what else will people base mp mods on? cs?

Well it seems to be officially announced that HL2's multiplayer
component is CS:S, and there is no standard deathmatch. Reviews in
magazines have said it, and it says so on the Steam forum's HL2 FAQ.
Would be nice to be surprised but it just doesn't seem likely. Perhaps
as a later steam download though?

I don't remember AG1 forcing low def models, however if it did, it was
quite probably just a setting that servers could choose to use or not
use.

Itwas a taggable option, on install, not forced. Possibly should have defaulted to normal models, instead of low, as I've heard the same gripe before.

i am so confused, HLDM is the only reason HL1 has survived for 5 years, at least in so far as what shipped with the game from day #1, why would a company, who's backbone population is HLDM, not ship the new game with the option??

HLDM is almost unaltered since its shipment date, and still basically popular..

i may not even buy HL2 now :sad:

as much as it pains me to say it, HLDM isnt the reason HL has kept its
flag flying for so long.. hardly anyone plays it anymore - the
"moddability" of half life has dictated it's success, particuarly with
games like Counter-Strike which has carried the franchise pretty much
from beta 7 onward..

Mods like Counter-Strike kept HL alive, not HLDM.

http://www.steampowered.com/status/game_stats.html

Says it all about HLDM's popularity really :sad: That said, most people
are disappointed by the lack of HL2DM despite those low player numbers,
as lots of people (including many here I'm sure) have fond memories of
the game but have just moved on. 5 years is a long time to be playing
the same standard deathmatch mode - the number of people playing it now
does NOT represent the number of people who have been fans of HLDM and
would be players of HL2DM.

in spite of those current figures, i still say HLDM has had more total people/numbers played than all the mods combined, if one had a way of tallying the totals over the past 5 years..

i hate, or hesitate to say this cause i feel it may cause a fire storm, but IMO the only reason mods like counterstrike are as popular today, is the same mindset that has come to except killboxes, and rampant r_speeds.. people got tired of old HLDM and were willing to accept any crap out there as long as it looked/felt new.

consider, 3 or 4 years ago, at the peak of HLDM, no one would have wasted a server on killboxes, or counterstrike, when they could have set one up for HLDM..

call it wishful thinking, call it disillusioned, but i still say, if HLDM doesn't ship, or come out really soon after shipping, HL2 will fail..

no one who has waited 5 years, is gonna wait much after shipping for it..

bottomline, just because counterstrike is popular today, by no means makes it good.

The really telling story about all this is that CS was is and always will be team deathmatch with rounds. There is no overarching goal in the game besides killing the opposing team. The hostages are there to prevent drawn out camping and the bomb sites are to draw people towards an area to fight and die. There's very little strategy and its a very twitch game. Not that there's anything wrong with all this, but anyone who thinks there's more strategy and tactics in CS than DoD or TFC are crazy.

Counterstrike isn't just popular today though Orph.. it's been a big
thing right back from Beta 4 - coupled with Team Fortress Classic which
also used to be absolutely huge, HLDM has never been a huge phenomenon.
Sorry if it sounds like im rubbishing everything you say, but it's the
truth.

HLDM, or at least HLDM by itself has never been "huge". I've been
playing HLDM and pretty much all the boom mods since their respectful
releases, and DM was never huge - even with Sven, OzDM etc. Very much a
minority game, especially when shadowed with things like Q3DM to
compete with in the middle of its life.

HL was huge primarily because of its single player, and it's instant
connection with mod makers and the ease of which they could utilise it
to make fantastic multiplayer games.

scratches buttocks while absorbing information

ok then.

Yo dogs, we should all make HL2DM ourselves :cool:

Actually, we COULD do it. The coding probably wouldn't be too difficult, and I'd say we'd do pretty okay as mappers.

Yak_Fighter said:
The really telling story about all this is that CS was is and always will be team deathmatch with rounds. There is no overarching goal in the game besides killing the opposing team. The hostages are there to prevent drawn out camping and the bomb sites are to draw people towards an area to fight and die. There's very little strategy and its a very twitch game. Not that there's anything wrong with all this, but anyone who thinks there's more strategy and tactics in CS than DoD or TFC are crazy.

I think DoD rises far above either CS and maybe TFC (I was never much of a TFC player). The proponderence of one-shot-kill weapons, slow player movement, and limited jumping ability combine to produce a very different, and yes, highly tactical experience.

Cassius said:
Yo dogs, we should all make HL2DM ourselves :cool:

Actually, we COULD do it. The coding probably wouldn't be too difficult, and I'd say we'd do pretty okay as mappers.

worse comes to worse.. i have the taboo editor, and it has HLDM, i can only assume, that its in the works somehow for HL2..

sighs

even if HLDM is the lowest rated amongst everything, its all i want

Cassius said:
Yo dogs, we should all make HL2DM ourselves :cool:

Actually, we COULD do it. The coding probably wouldn't be too difficult, and I'd say we'd do pretty okay as mappers.

We could DEFFINITLY pull off. The problem is, none of have actually be exposed (if you're honest :razz: ) to HL2 mapping. The coding should be a pretty easy rip-job from the original HL .DLL file, (i,e. respawning weapons, players, etc).

Also, HL2 may not be coming with a deathmatch simply because the game is to big. Imagine playing a map that is like, oh, let's say 7 times the size of your average HLDM map, on an internet server with 32 players, with everyone's visual setting set on "full".

I smell lag....

seen cs:source beta? 64 players :biggrin:

As for map size, it works out hte grid will be 64 times bigger. there was a lot of discussion about this over at the verc.

The gridsize is much bigger, but that doesn't mean one has to use all
that space. I think 64 players for HLDM might be a bit OTT though.
Maybe 32 vs. 32 team deathmatch or OP4 CTF style.

64 times bigger....

You know what I'm thinkin' :biggrin:

Sorry, Ballblue, you're so freakin' naive.

The very logic you're using is flawed, a DLL is like a module, it's executable code is NOTHING, since it is not a running program on its own, it has to be ran from an outside location. On top of that, it's compiled code, you can't read it.

Not to mention, HL2 is a new engine with new net code. Believe me, making a complete modification of ANY KIND will be just a difficult as making any mod for HL2, because you have no base besides CS:S for Multiplayer adaptation.

Basically, you can use the libraries supplied with HL2 IF they release an SDK. Then all you have to do is write some stuff to set up a DM mode, which doesn't sound too hard, right? It's a pain in the ass if you want it to work properly and reliably.

I remember in Software Engineering, we had an example of how a lot of coders ignore certain testing possibilities (Most important part of creating software). There was an example of a triangle, you could put in values for each edge. It turned out the average test case number from the engineers was 5 or so, when in all actuality there are 14 cases.

Don't take modding a new game lightly, I'm not saying it couldn't be done fairly quickly or anything like that, you just have to realize there is no MP base if CS:S is the only MP.

Crono said:
Sorry, Ballblue, you're so freakin' naive.

The very logic you're using is flawed, a DLL is like a module, it's executable code is NOTHING, since it is not a running program on its own, it has to be ran from an outside location. On top of that, it's compiled code, you can't read it.

Not to mention, HL2 is a new engine with new net code. Believe me, making a complete modification of ANY KIND will be just a difficult as making any mod for HL2, because you have no base besides CS:S for Multiplayer adaptation.

Basically, you can use the libraries supplied with HL2 IF they release an SDK. Then all you have to do is write some stuff to set up a DM mode, which doesn't sound too hard, right? It's a pain in the ass if you want it to work properly and reliably.

I remember in Software Engineering, we had an example of how a lot of coders ignore certain testing possibilities (Most important part of creating software). There was an example of a triangle, you could put in values for each edge. It turned out the average test case number from the engineers was 5 or so, when in all actuality there are 14 cases.

Don't take modding a new game lightly, I'm not saying it couldn't be done fairly quickly or anything like that, you just have to realize there is no MP base if CS:S is the only MP.

Well, if you can tell me how to decode, decompile, or whatever the hell you wanna call it, into an edible C++ file that I can read in DEVCPP, then okay then :smile:

/me fires up DEVCPP.

You know what...I think I recall seeing somene from Valve mention in an
e-mail (from that huge thread full of them at HL2.net) that they were
working on some sort of basic MP basis for the SDK...I'll see if I can
dig it up, but it's a bloody huge thread...

OK, I found this:

Don't know if we knew this already, but:

Hi!

I was just wondering whether the production of CS: Source was hindering

that of HL2 or influencing its release date at all?

I understand you're very busy so good luck.

Cheers,

Chris George

It's work we have to do regardless (e.g. for multiplayer sample code for

the SDK).

-----Original Message-----

From: Chris George [mailto:*****@hotmail.com]

Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 5:22 AM

To: Gabe Newell

Subject: CS: Source

I'm not sure what exactly he means by this; whetrher it's sample code
from CS:Source or some sort of basic code that you can build DM off of.

I think what that's saying is that CSS isn't unrelated work. They need something to show how the multiplayer works and CSS fits the bill. Stupid CS taking the place of DM...

I played hldm for now 4years and more and i still like it, it just need
a new fresh start on the source engine... as valve didn't make that...
its up to our community to do it!!!

and we will :wink:

HLDM is a much simpler concept to implement, why would they omit such a large portion of the members.. even if the DM portion of us is as small as everyone seems to think, there are still millions of us out there..

i didn't even finish the single player portion, DM is the only valuable part i like.. some user friendly solution best make itself available, or i will be one unhappy camper :sad:

Orpheus said:
HLDM is a much simpler concept to implement, why would they omit such a large portion of the members.. even if the DM portion of us is as small as everyone seems to think, there are still millions of us out there..

Because HLDM is slow, requires reloads, has no "anouncer" (I don't know if Mr. Vox qualifies :wink: ) and isn't much deeper then that. I personally like it, but if you want ubb3r l33t deathmatch, you're better off playing Quake3, or Unreal. And that's what people do :O

f**k that s**t. HLDM was unique in the fact that it was totally balanced weaponwise (egon notwithstanding), didn't have retarded powerups, and wasn't blazingly fast where crack addled dips**ts would have the upper hand. It also didn't have lame gameplay modes like instagib and such. I've always had more fun playing HLDM than Q3 or UT, especially when playing against real people, as its much harder to dominate HLDM than the other two.

/me pets yak..

/me washes hand afterward though.

calm down joseph, it will be alright..

when/if HL2 ships, if it screws up over, i will send you what you need to make DM maps .. even though we might not be able to frag them.

Orpheus said:
i will send you what you need to make DM maps .. even though we might not be able to frag them.

So basically itll be just like HLDM, where nobody plays or even knows about my maps. :biggrin:

Yak_Fighter said:
So basically itll be just like HLDM, where nobody plays or even knows about my maps. :biggrin:

nods head up and down but says

no, not exactly..

yak, i dunno if you recall, but remember a few years ago when you were much more childish? i said to you "why are you wasting time making prefabs?"

you got a bit testy with me.. remember when i said your first HLDM map was empty?you got mad then too.. well you don't get mad at me as often now..

i am ever so glad you finally grew up :biggrin:

/runs

Okay besides DM for HL2, has anyone heard about Team Fortress Classic 2? I think that will satisfy most DM atics, but I still would like a HL2 DM :biggrin: .

Orpheus said:

Yak_Fighter said:
So basically itll be just like HLDM, where nobody plays or even knows about my maps. :biggrin:

nods head up and down but says

no, not exactly..

yak, i dunno if you recall, but remember a few years ago when you were much more childish? i said to you "why are you wasting time making prefabs?"

you got a bit testy with me.. remember when i said your first HLDM map was empty?you got mad then too.. well you don't get mad at me as often now..

i am ever so glad you finally grew up :biggrin:

/runs

screw you :razz: Torque is the greatest map ever made.

Okay besides DM for HL2, has anyone heard about Team Fortress
Classic 2? I think that will satisfy most DM atics, but I still would
like a HL2 DM :biggrin: .

it's Team Fortress 2, Not Team Fortress Classic 2. And Valve said
they'd talk about it after HL2 is released, so expect something between the
release date and E3 2005.

Kage_Prototype said:
it's Team Fortress 2, Not Team Fortress Classic 2.

My bad thanks I cant wait to see what that game will be like :biggrin:

Yak_Fighter said:
screw you :razz: Torque is the greatest map ever made.

XXXOOOXXX

/me wuv's you too :wink:

i'll grant you this, it could have been.. had you listened as good then as you do now.

Bah. Deathmatch is gonna die anyway when Sven-Coop 2 is released :razz:

But sven coop is nothing like deathmatch, how could it ever replace it when they aren't comparable?

Duncan, Blue has been evil to me, make him stop :wink:

whispers

told'ya i'd tell on you when he got here :heee:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="95%" align=center>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; COLOR: gold" bgColor=black>? posted by G.Ballblue</TD>
<TR>
<TD bgColor=#151515>Bah. Deathmatch is gonna die anyway when Sven-Coop 2 is released :razz: </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

I don't know how DM can ever be replaced, I played Sven-coop and it was fun to a degree, but it would get too lagy, and there were too many bottle neck points that just didnt make the game fun.

And orph GB is evil to us all.....

Slaps BallBlue

Don't even think about decompiling code, especially complex code. Do you honestly think it'd be that easy? I envy your blissful ignorance. Just wait, try it, when you get into neck deep s**t, you'll understand 0.05% of what I was talking about.

Crono said:
Slaps BallBlue

Don't even think about decompiling code, especially complex code. Do you honestly think it'd be that easy? I envy your blissful ignorance. Just wait, try it, when you get into neck deep s**t, you'll understand 0.05% of what I was talking about.

Well there's gotta be some way to edit it, and I'm still waiting for your answer :razz: