Half life 3

Swedish mag Gamereactor has broken cover (and, it appears, its non-disclosure agreement) by claiming that Valve CEO Gabe Newell revealed that Half-Life 3 is in the planning stage at the Seattle developers.

http://gamesradar.msn.co.uk/news/default.asp?pagetypeid=2&articleid=29117&subsectionid=1589

GamesRadar is reporting that during a recent press briefing at Valve HQ, Gabe Newell revealed that they are planning to develop Half-Life 3 with Half-Life 2 female NPC Alyx as a playable character. Well, I guess we will see the first details at E3 2005, or, in the worst case, we will have to wait another 5 years and maybe another 30 September release date.

http://www.gamershell.com/news/18665.html

I haven't completed HL2, so I can't judge what the story line will be like in HL3, but would adding the option of playing as Alyx be an upside or a downside?

OOOOLLLLLLDDDDD!

They said they were gunna make HL3 like about 2 years ago lol.

Don't worry, Half-Life 3 won't take five years.

It'll take ten, booya! In other news, having Alyx as a playable
character? I can see how that would be a good idea in some senses, but
it feels to me like they are beginning to break away from the original
Half-Life formula. You were Gordon Freemen. No face, no voice -
just a gun and a lot of pissed off monsters.

The majority of dev time for HL2 was to build the engine. They have one now, so it won't take as long.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Myrk-</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>OOOOLLLLLLDDDDD!

They said they were gunna make HL3 like about 2 years ago lol.

</DIV></DIV>

So? That means that i'm not allowed to make a thread on it :razz:
Does anyone know anything about the plot, I agree with you vash that having Alyx as a playable character would take it away from the original half life.

I doubt they'll make HL3 with the Source engine

They'l probably create another engine based on the source engine for
HL3. But they will most likely create expansion/sp mods for the current
engine to add to HL2.

So, in all actuality it may take just as long for HL3 to come out.

Gabe said the Source engine was a too big investment for just one game. So I think they'll just modify the Source engine a bit, but not going that far as to create another engine again.

But well, time will tell...

---SPOILER for anyone who hasn't finished the game---

Surely we can't have Alyx as a playable character? It would just be absurd to say she survived that.

---END OF SPOILER---

Sorry about the waste of space, I'm just trying to make sure I don't spoil it for anyone else.

Wow. That was the lamest spoiler attempt evarr. If you want to make a chunk of text a spoiler, do a [ color=black ] insert spoiler text here [ /color ] (minus the spaces in the tags) so that if someone wants to see it, they have to highlight it.

Then let me attempt to cover a 'spoiler' in blackness:

You wouldn't survive it either, without the G-man's
intervention. So why should she die and you stay alive?

HL3 would be nice, but will take FOREVER. It is a matter of public record that valve was dragging thier ass while building the source engine and sacrificed good content for a christmas release time.

If they make Alyx playable, they sohuld not make it HL3 they should make it more of a "Blue Shift" or OP4 thing. "Half-Life 2: Black Girl Shift" Anyway, I am pretty sure they'll F this one up too; get hacked or something...

From what I've read, you're not just going to play as Alyx. She's going to be playable, but most likely in the context of working with Gordon Freeman in certain parts. I for one would love to see this, as it would really add new elements to the game.

I honestly don't think they would ditch freeman in any official sequel to HL (official as in not just being a mod of HL or HL2).

Considering HL3 won't come out for another 3 years give or take, you
can't expect that they live with the source engine for that log can
you? Considering by todays standards its already verging on being
inferior? If they did stay with source it would have to
essentially be super overhauled. They could use source as the
basis for a new engine.

I read in PC Gamer that they would be using the Source engine for HL3
so hopefully, barring any Russian hacker incidents, we won't have to
wait quite as long for it to emerge.

Thinking about it, why did the Source engine take so long to develop?
Apart from sticking in some candy floss and the physics engine it
doesn't feel vastly different to the one used in HL1... perhaps I'm
underestimating the amount of time it takes to put in pretty water
effects.

Try to create an engine of your own and you'll soon see you're underestimating it... :wink:

Who's to say the G-Man didn't also talk to her, a la Adrian Shephard/Barney Calhoun? Throughout the game, she was really doing the same things as you.

<span style="color: black;">I'm curious,
does the Blue Shift story at all fit in with what happens in HL2? As
in, nothing happens in that that contradicts Barney being around and
acting fairly normal?

</span>

Not really ReNo, haven't you played it? It's just the same setup as original HL/Op4 to my memory.

Quite fun in places as well, the trainyard battle is uber cool.

I think it's best to just write BlueShift off as a horrible horrible mistake.

Pffft, it wasn't that bad jeff you harsh beast.. a little thin, unoriginal and short.. but er, yeah, still fun to play!

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>HL3 would be nice, but will take FOREVER. It is a matter of public record that valve was dragging thier ass while building the source engine</DIV></DIV>
It's official. You are an egocentric idiot. Corporations do not take unprofitable actions simply to spite their customer base. The argument that Valve ever delayed the game on purpose is as nonsensical as any I've ever heard.

HL3 would be an excellent decision, both in economics and design. But the fact is, it will take years.

Staff sizes are exploding at studios around the industry, but with higher demand for better, more detailed, and more impressive art content and functionality, the time it takes to develop these titles is growing at an even greater rate. Team size may double or even triple for some studios, but content creation times are multiplied by at least five or six, if not tenfold.

Valve and id are in good shape going into their next projects because they can build from their existing technology. That cuts a lot of development time out of the way and means the content they build early on has a greater chance of still being usable. But that doesn't mean it still won't be years before those titles hit shelves.

Valve has spoken of doing some episodic content with Alyx and Dog, perhaps, sort of a piece-by-piece prequel to HL2. That would rock and would keep a small portion of their staff busy while letting the brunt of people work on the other project. They're a big enough studio they can afford to do that.

Has anyone here ever developed on an engine before the first game with it shipped (Finger, perhaps)? It's not pleasant - no matter how good the engine is, things are always changing, and that means things break and things become obsolete. Both very often. And to imply "dragging [ones collective] ass" is an insult to the ridiculous amount of work it takes to get things done in such a situation.

Thinking about it, why did the Source engine take so long to develop? Apart from sticking in some candy floss and the physics engine it doesn't feel vastly different to the one used in HL1... perhaps I'm underestimating the amount of time it takes to put in pretty water effects.

Well, covering a 128x128 brush in HL was done with a 128x128 texture. Doing so in HL2 takes a 512x512 texture. Increases to resolution and detail in textures and models is where most of the extended length comes from. In Valve's case, it isn't so much the tech itself that holds things up - I still don't really consider the Source engine true "next-gen" technology, which is where the real timeframe increases lie - but rather, their art direction. HL2 has some of the best art direction I've ever seen in a game. The attention to detail they gave every zone (even lighting maps to make the progression through the game feel more natural) takes an extra layer of time beyond content creation. The payoff is huge - HL2 is host to one of the best environments I've ever been thrust into in a game.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Tracer Bullet</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>
It's official. You are an egocentric idiot. Corporations do not take unprofitable actions simply to spite their customer base. The argument that Valve ever delayed the game on purpose is as nonsensical as any I've ever heard.

</DIV></DIV>

And you are being a mean-spirited f**ktard. It doesn't hurt VALVe's profits one little bit to cut half fo the content out of such an anticipated game!! Seriously, think about how many people were looking forward to this. Millions would have bought it even if CNN reported that there was a VIRUS on each copy.
And i am not saying that they did it to spite thier customers, They did it to make all the christmas cash. They missed last year's because of the hacking.

<span style="color: black;">I'm curious,
does the Blue Shift story at all fit in with what happens in HL2? As
in, nothing happens in that that contradicts Barney being around and
acting fairly normal?

</span>

You're not Barney in Blue-Shift.

It's
pretty stupid actually. It would have been better if there was more
content, but there isn't. The most difficult opposition you meet are
marines. Not to mention there is no end boss like the HL or Opposing
Force.

All that happens in Blue-Shift is you escape Black Mesa
get into a truck and drive off with some scientists before some
marines come in to ruin your s**t (which wouldn't happen because
playing it you're most likely a veteran in OP4 which has monsters ten
times as difficult to kill)

Nickelplate, I would have boughten it
anyway if CNN said that, just because CNN lies a lot.

You are Barney. They specifically refer to you as Calhoun who knows how many times.

Blue Shift was intended to be an addition to HL for the DC, I think, but when that fell through they released it separately. For being a bonus mission, I thought it was quite good.

You are Barney. They specifically refer to you as Calhoun who knows how many times.

Blue
Shift was intended to be an addition to HL for the DC, I think, but
when that fell through they released it separately. For being a bonus
mission, I thought it was quite good.

What I was saying is you aren't the
same person in HL2 which is 'Barney'. In hl1 it was just a generic
security guard name. But with Blue-Shift, obviously, you have a
different name. Thus you aren't the same 'barney' that's in HL2 ...

You are missing the point of my comment. Note that I didn't include the bit about leaving out content in my quote. I took issue with the first part of your statement because I am damn tired of that particular attitude.

The picture painted by the "drag ass" theory is of the big bad corporation victimizing you, the poor helpless gamer. Please. What did they do, fail to release their product based on your ignorant timetable? It presupposes that your individual wishes and petty desires are of personal importance to a corporate entity. Furthermore, it attributes malice to said entity, which is patently ridicules.

As for me being a f**ktard... if that was a word, I might be hurt by your insult. However, I do understand the spirit of the comment, so I will offer a meager explanation. I think I'm something like Dr. Jackal and Mr. Jackass. Sometimes I'm nice to a fault, but at others I'll rip your heart out... you just never know. :razz:

What I was saying is you aren't the
same person in HL2 which is 'Barney'. In hl1 it was just a generic
security guard name. But with Blue-Shift, obviously, you have a
different name. Thus you aren't the same 'barney' that's in HL2 ...

In HL1, it was a generic name, yes. In Blue Shift, you were specifically named Barney Calhoun. Now, unless there's more than one guy named 'Barney' in Black Mesa security...

Was is Barney Calhoun? I don't really remember. Oh well. What a pussy then.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Tracer Bullet</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>You are missing the point of my comment. Note that I didn't include the bit about leaving out content in my quote. I took issue with the first part of your statement because I am damn tired of that particular attitude.

The picture painted by the "drag ass" theory is of the big bad corporation victimizing you, the poor helpless gamer. Please. What did they do, fail to release their product based on your ignorant timetable? It presupposes that your individual wishes and petty desires are of personal importance to a corporate entity. Furthermore, it attributes malice to said entity, which is patently ridicules.

As for me being a f**ktard... if that was a word, I might be hurt by your insult. However, I do understand the spirit of the comment, so I will offer a meager explanation. I think I'm something like Dr. Jackal and Mr. Jackass. Sometimes I'm nice to a fault, but at others I'll rip your heart out... you just never know. :razz:

</DIV></DIV>

Well, all i'm saying with drag-ass is they took thier sweet time.

AND said corporate entity heretofore having claims of developing products FOR "the poor, helpless gamer", would most likely find it a lucrative option to not anger aforementioned "gamers." I don't know of ONE single HL fan (though i'm sure there was a few) that said "Hey, that's GREAT!" when SEPT, 30 rolled around and there was no HL2. This having been said, one could surmise that game companies would try to please gamers as much as possible because once someone gets miffed at a company they tend to hold a grudge and NOT buy thier products with the same fervor as those who would have bought ti after the "virus announcement"

As for "f**ktard" being a word, It's a contraction of f**king, and Retard (see "f**ktard") and you don't need to take offense to that, I was just reciprocating your derrogatory choice of verbage.
Anyway, If you saw the leaked version or some of the E3 stuff, you would know why I am disappointed in the final product and it's lack of content.

I think valve should "hammer (no pun intended) out the dents" in the
source engine before they move on to HL3 or any expansion, like dynamic
lighting like in doom 3 would make it the ULTIMATE Engine, or the audio
shuttering that everyone is talking about (although I've never
experenced it)

Currently Im waiting for Quake 4 and the new Unreal 3 engine to come out.

Anyway, If you saw the leaked version or some of the E3 stuff, you would know why I am disappointed in the final product and it's lack of content.

Did Ravenholm seem familiar to you? Traptown from the E3 demonstration. Some of the C17 stuff I recognized as being modified from the strider combat videos. Highway 17 was the buggy demo. Yet Ravenholm was nothing like Traptown in game dynamics.

Point is, things change. A lot. Odds are, with the exception of the ship and the docks, many of the areas depicted in the E3 demo have since been overhauled into new form for whatever reason. You may not recognize what it evolved to, but that doesn't mean it's not there.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

Well, all i'm saying with drag-ass is they took thier sweet time.
AND said corporate entity heretofore having claims of developing products FOR "the poor, helpless gamer", would most likely find it a lucrative option to not anger aforementioned "gamers." I don't know of ONE single HL fan (though i'm sure there was a few) that said "Hey, that's GREAT!" when SEPT, 30 rolled around and there was no HL2. This having been said, one could surmise that game companies would try to please gamers as much as possible because once someone gets miffed at a company they tend to hold a grudge and NOT buy thier products with the same fervor as those who would have bought ti after the "virus announcement"

</DIV></DIV>

Ergo... Valve didn't "take it's sweet time" They took the amount of time that was necessary for development. You make a statement and then proceed to contradict yourself with the argument.

Fact: It is in the best interest of the developers to please gamers.

Fact: HL2 took a very long time to develop, which pissed off gamers.

Your conclusion: Valve delayed the game on purpose.

My conclusion: Valve brought HL2 to market as fast as possible while still delivering a quality product.

The only way you can possibly support your conclusion of intentional delay, is to attribute a malicious motive to Valve. Do I need to go any further to explain how stupid that sounds?

On the subject of insults:
I called you an "egocentric idiot". You called me a "mean-spirited f**ktard". Using "words" like that just make you sound dumb. Mean-spirited is good, and in this case accurate, but f**ktard is just childish, which spoiled the whole impact of the comment. You could have called me a "mean-spirited arrogant pedant", been much closer to the mark, and still stayed within the bounds of the officially accepted lexicon.

Omegaslayer - adding dynamic lighting like that isn't exactly hammering
out the dents. Ill bet the doom3 engine was designed around that
idea. IE it would be extremely difficult, and probably not
produce as quality a product if you added it as an afterthought.

VUG, distributors of the boxed version of Half-Life 2, have filed a
case against Valve, accusing them of "fraud, delaying tatics and
mistrusths in relation to Half-Life 2 and Steam". This is from PC Gamer
Issue 142.

Also in the article is a extract from the court filings.

"Beginning in 1999, following the success of its first game, Valve
began to threaten Sierra that it would halt or slow development of the
remaining games it was obligated to develop unless Sierra relinquished
certain rights under the 1997 agreements. Sierra eventually capitulated
to these cemands and, relying on the misrepresentations by Valve,
entered into a new software publishing agreement (SPA) with Valve in
2001.

"Among other concessions, Sierra agreed to relinquish intellectual
property rights and to allow Valve certain rights to the online
distribution of games.

"Valve did not disclose during the negotiations over the 2001 SPA that
is was in the process of developing a new technology called Steam that
would allow consumers who would normally purchase games from Sierra/VUG
at retail to purchase those products online directly from Valve."

More fool Sierra/VUG you might say for signing over the rights, but it
still smacks of something stinky coming from the Valve. It would also
explain the number of delays in the production of HL2. Despite the
hacking, you would of thought the game would've been out quite a while
ago. Maybe Valve were just waiting till they were happy with the
robustness of Steam to take online orders before they let VUG have a
candidate copy of HL2 for release.

I'll be quite interested in the outcome of the case anyway.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Tracer Bullet</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

Well, all i'm saying with drag-ass is they took thier sweet time.
AND said corporate entity heretofore having claims of developing products FOR "the poor, helpless gamer", would most likely find it a lucrative option to not anger aforementioned "gamers." I don't know of ONE single HL fan (though i'm sure there was a few) that said "Hey, that's GREAT!" when SEPT, 30 rolled around and there was no HL2. This having been said, one could surmise that game companies would try to please gamers as much as possible because once someone gets miffed at a company they tend to hold a grudge and NOT buy thier products with the same fervor as those who would have bought ti after the "virus announcement"

</DIV></DIV>

Ergo... Valve didn't "take it's sweet time" They took the amount of time that was necessary for development. You make a statement and then proceed to contradict yourself with the argument.

Fact: It is in the best interest of the developers to please gamers.

Fact: HL2 took a very long time to develop, which pissed off gamers.

Your conclusion: Valve delayed the game on purpose.

My conclusion: Valve brought HL2 to market as fast as possible while still delivering a quality product.

The only way you can possibly support your conclusion of intentional delay, is to attribute a malicious motive to Valve. Do I need to go any further to explain how stupid that sounds?

On the subject of insults:
I called you an "egocentric idiot". You called me a "mean-spirited f**ktard". Using "words" like that just make you sound dumb. Mean-spirited is good, and in this case accurate, but f**ktard is just childish, which spoiled the whole impact of the comment. You could have called me a "mean-spirited arrogant pedant", been much closer to the mark, and still stayed within the bounds of the officially accepted lexicon.

</DIV></DIV>

Oy Veh! I never said that valve delayed release on purpose. I actually said the opposite: that valve released too soon thereby having to exclude segments that could have been paramount to further success. They wanted to make the christmas deadline, so they released too early. I mean, come on! MULTIPLAYER wasn't even included in the initial release!
I have since realized that "f**ktard" sounds rather like what is called "fanboy speech" therefore i will cease all usage of said name.

How do you define the phrase "drag ass" if not "intentionally delay"?

Well, given that there's a law suit accusing Valve of "dragging ass"
then it wasn't really as much of a ridiculous statement as you made out
Tracer Bullet.

It isn't unheard of for large, reputable companies such as Valve to do
somewhat naughty things, such as intentionally delay a game for
financial gain.

Just because we enjoy the games they make doesn't mean we can't question whether or not they're whiter than white.

ah! I see where you oculd have gotten confused! It does seem like I was implying intentional excessive delay of game!! (HAHAHAHAHA) :rolleyes: Anyway, I don't actually deny that they MIGHT not have. I think it's probably unlikely, but it could have happened. Just like VALVe getting hacked was unlikely and un-thought-of, It happened and no one suspected for a time. Only VALVe knows what the real deal is. Anyway, what i meant is that they went too slow with too much confidence in the fact that EVERYONE WILL buy thier game NO MATTER WHAT. I think they abused thier position as the maker of my favorite game, and they made me mad personally with all this delay nonsense.

Bantam, you raise a good point. If in fact Valve stood to gain financially from delaying development, then I'd be prepared to believe it. I'd even be surprised if they didn't.

The point of my argument was that most people have claimed that Valve delayed release intentionally without providing any farther motive than some ambiguous malicious intent. Anything that can be legally done to increase profits and the health of the organization, a corporation will, and indeed should, do. You have provided a potentially sound motive, and if it bears out, rendered my argument impotent.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Tracer Bullet</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Bantam, you raise a good point. If in fact Valve stood to gain financially from delaying development, then I'd be prepared to believe it. I'd even be surprised if they didn't.

The point of my argument was that most people have claimed that Valve delayed release intentionally without providing any farther motive than some ambiguous malicious intent. Anything that can be legally done to increase profits and the health of the organization, a corporation will, and indeed should, do. You have provided a potentially sound motive, and if it bears out, rendered my argument impotent.

</DIV></DIV>
Maybe they wanted the big dramatic Christmas release? and the profits accomanying?

Bantam, you raise a good point. If in fact Valve stood to gain
financially from delaying development, then I'd be prepared to believe
it. I'd even be surprised if they didn't.

The point of my argument was that most people have claimed that
Valve delayed release intentionally without providing any farther
motive than some ambiguous malicious intent. Anything that can be
legally done to increase profits and the health of the organization, a
corporation will, and indeed should, do. You have provided a
potentially sound motive, and if it bears out, rendered my argument
impotent.

Very true. If I got a penny for everytime I'd heard an unsubstantiated
rant or conspiracy story on the internet I'd be a very rich man. It
just so happens that in this case there might be a scrap of truth in
some of these fantastic claims.

I wouldn't blame Valve in a way... afterall, I do see game publishers
and record labels as the leeches of their respective industries. They
are purely middle men who take their cut of our money while hyping and
advertising their products to the nth degree.

If Valve can mirror the success of iTunes to some extent in providing a
means of distributing good quality content over the internet cheaply
then I'll be happy. However, if it turns out that Valve were acting in
a way that was particularly underhanded in screwing over VUG then you
have to question some of their business practices.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Kage_Prototype</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>The majority of dev time for HL2 was to build the engine. They have one now, so it won't take as long.
</DIV></DIV>
i hope HL2 mods get enough time to develop and mature, cause when there's a new version on the horizon they tend to bleed to death :/

I'd like them to work on a different type of game on the Source engine,
something totally different. I don't want hl3 straight away, hl2 will
keep me happy for quite a while... I think it'll have an even longer
run than h1 had if we get the quality of mods we had for that, if not
better!

Some images in this post have been automatically down-sized, click on them to view the full sized versions:

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Neural Scan</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>I'd like them to work on a different type of game on the Source engine, something totally different. I don't want hl3 straight away, hl2 will keep me happy for quite a while... I think it'll have an even longer run than h1 had if we get the quality of mods we had for that, if not better!
</DIV></DIV>

HL2 will keep me happy for ages, especially with all the mods being made, cs along kept me happy for the best part of 2 years, LOL when I first played cs I didn't even know it was a mod.

Pic of HL3:

Oh that would be so awesome. But, no.
It would be almost impossible to make any game look identical to real
life in the near future. :sad:

It's mostly because of lighting to
be honest. It's damn annoying in it's ultimate complexity. Sound has
the same issues too. (since they're both forms of waves and
frequencies)

It'd also be cool if things like pressure were in
the physics system. Water would be used like crazy if it were.
Trickling down pipes and stuff.

Sloth, the next time you go
walking around with a crow bar single handed, try swinging it around.
Such a pain in the ass.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Crono</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>
Sloth, the next time you go walking around with a crow bar single handed, try swinging it around. Such a pain in the ass.

</DIV></DIV>

I prefer nuncucks [sp?] more fun :biggrin:
Did you think that was me in the pic? It's not :razz:

Just finished HL2 on medium, after 3 days of gameplay. 5years for 3 days...hmm...but, hell, those were some of the greatest 3 days spent on a game ever!

Crono said:
Sloth, the next time you go walking around with a crow bar single handed, try swinging it around. Such a pain in the ass.

I prefer nuncucks [sp?] more fun :biggrin:

Did you think that was me in the pic? It's not :razz:

So? Try it anyway.

That's what I thought too. It took me like more than a week to complete Hl1. I would have waited another few months while VALVe added some really nice extra chapters. :smile: