Hex

That looks cool. which remeinds me, I should get started on a contest map.

Reminds me a lot of Haste's "Stolatene Mine" for Quake 3 ... http://www.planetquake.com/nunuk/geocomp2maphaste.htm

Nicely done so far!

This sooo reminds me of the board game 'Settlers of Catan'...

Anyway, nice style, though I'm wondering how you will turn this into a playable DM map that's still interesting enough. The hexagon theme alone lacks a bit character to make up a full map, I think.
Especially that unlit, cartoony feel makes the map look very un-Sourcy, in a bad way I think. It's too simple to become really interesting right now.

Interesting concept Reno, and I see you are going to continue across the flatshaded theme from last years competition. Hopefully you'll have more success than last time, though with the simple nature of the architecture and the new engine that shouldn't be problem.

Yeah Agent, the island setting for last year's entry was really pushing the boat out a bit far for the HL1 engine really, but this time around I think it should be quite managable. I'm not using any complex materials, all these are just single pass diffuse maps - all unlit so not even any lightmaps, let alone normal maps/specular maps to drag down performance. Combined with the fact that everything is fitting together in a hexagonal grid (so there isn't going to be much in the way of face splitting), it should run pretty damn nicely even if it grows to be quite massive. My only concern performance wise at the moment is that all the outlines on the hexagons are brush based just now, which is complicating the brushwork no end. If I can be bothered making some textures with the borders in place, it could actually mean each hexagon needs only two brushes, and you can't ask for more simple than that!

CP, I think the hexagonal style actually offers more gameplay potential than you might expect. I may experiment with using smaller hexagons in order to allow for more detail, but I think that might detract from its "board game" style.

Dietz, I had seen that before, so when I was playing around with a block type of level and not having much joy, I was reminded that hexagons can work. My first approach was along the same lines as his - a beehive type structure - but after playing around with this setting I decided it was working out better. Glad you like it so far

rs6 - get on it man, the contest is looking quiet so far so we need to drum up more entries!

I like it! Reminds me of an "inside the data in the computer" theme. Much like that game Darwinia. Maybe you could add some more of that. Like loose data flying around ala the movie "Hackers". Or perhaps that would ruin it. Cool sound effects with blipping sounds spread of through the map. That would be awesome!

Keep it up

Not much to show just now, but figured I should make a thread before
any others comment in the map profile. I still don't think its an ideal
system having both...

So yeah, the map description says it all really. This is my WIP entry
for this year's contest, and is somewhat akin to my entry last year in
that it is a flatshaded island. This time around though, everything is
based on a hexagonal grid. Pretty crazy I know, any isn't exactly
taking advantage of the source engine too impressively, but its a very
fun way to map, and its something different (which is I guess the point
of this contest).

Comments, suggestions, criticism, etc... are all welcome. I'd
particularly be interested in hearing whether you think I should add in
non-hexagonal detail or keep going with the way it currently looks.
Also ideas on what I could do about physics props, as obviously nothing
"usual" is going to fit here.

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

We don't have both... When you post a forum thread it removes comments... I prefer having both, but maybe only comments on final versions so you can see if its worth downloading.

Anyway, your map. Looks cool, but I feel its lacking- not quite there. Maybe your should expand the grid to a 3 dimensional hexangonal grid? That would be crazy. Just looks like its lacking detail and I can't see how much could be added on the current theme, which may be a little too HL1 based.

Also ask yourself- does it have to be an island? It restricts your choices of what you can do considerably. I think maybe a Hexangonal gridded HL2 style level would be interesting, like an alternate universe where everything is hexagonal, but relates to the existing world.

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-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-

The fact it removes the comments is my problem - by starting this
thread, the 4 comments that had been made are now deleted. Anyway I
posted my concerns in the suggestions thread, no point discussing them
here I guess.

Initially I was going for something entirely abstract, then I played
around with a beehive kinda thing, but eventually I settled on this
island setting. I think its because I've been playing the Wind Waker
that I've been turned back to this sort of theme :biggrin: I'm not really sure
what you mean about an alternate universe where everything is hexagonal

• you mean like doorways, windows, pillars, etc... are hexagonal? I

guess that could work, but I don't think I'm gonna have too much time
to work on this level before the deadline, and my current approach is
very playful and simplistic. Its like Lego or something - anybody could
do this, its quick and easy, and the creativity isn't at all hampered
by technical ability.

The 3D hexagonal grid idea sounds far too complex in my opinion.
Hexagonal prisms all slot together nicely on a grid, but I don't even
know if a shape exists that comprises wholy of hexagonal sides :biggrin: I
think "that would be crazy" is a fitting summary of that idea! I agree
that this is currently somewhat HL1 style of complexity, but it does
mean I can make it pretty damn huge and still have good performance.
I'll try and make it impressive in scale and grandeur as opposed to
small scale details.

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

The HL2 alternate reality idea was kinda, for example, remaking a map, but using only hexagonal shapes. But yer, would take a while. Whens the deadline? I haven't even got an idea yet, but I'm sure I can chug out a map quickly when I know my direction.

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-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-

i agree with myrk that it looks too simple and HL1 -even with the fact that probably only 10 ppl in the world are using hexagonal grid right now :smile: That technologically new approach will soon be overlooked i think, and ppl will only see the simple shapes and colors.

If you restrict yourself to hexagons in 2D you can only work in terms of pillars -like in those screens- which will always keep it too simple i think, even if you make it impressive in scale and grandeur. As great as your last-year's entry looked, i dunno if you're gonna achieve the same "wow"-effect (+the fact that it's not new anymore, only the hexagonal bit)

Anyway, it seems everyone is going back for their last year's theme so far :smile:

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These words are my diaries screaming out loud

BlisTer said:
As great as your last-year's entry looked, i dunno if you're gonna achieve the same "wow"-effect (+the fact that it's not new anymore, only the hexagonal bit)

I got a pretty good amount of "wow" when I saw the visual style of the map :shocked:

I'm assuming you are using the cel-shading method? It's hard to tell if the black lines are somehow built into the textures, or if they are actual polygons.
Based on what I have played of the original HL1 map, my major recomendation would be to make the water... actual water :biggrin: I realize, that since this is DM that could be hard to do for the engine, but meh, worth a shot I guess.

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Breaking the laws of mapping since 2003 and doing a damn fine job at it

I suppose I could make it actual water in the way it acts, but I'd
still want it to be the flat blue that you can see in the screenshots.
Better having bodies and whatnot floating around as opposed to sitting
on a solid lump of blue however :smile: HL2 is pretty good at doing large
areas of water, so it shouldn't be a performance issue (particularly if
I'm not using any fancy water effects like refraction and reflection).

It isn't cel shading, at the moment I just have black brushes around
the edges of all the faces. Its not ideal as it bumps up the poly count
when black trimmed textures would do the trick, but it was just last
nights experimentation so nothing was finalised. I'm pretty set on this
theme now I think (its quick and easy - if I feel like something else
as well, I can probably manage) so I'll work on optimising the
technique. Performance should be fine regardless, as even if there are
a lot of world polys on show, the materials used are all very basic.
They just use the unlitgeneric shader, meaning they are just single
pass diffuse maps, without the addtional complexity of even lightmaps,
let alone normal or specular maps.

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

Exactly how big are these hexagons gunna be?

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http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/8521/windows981dk.jpg

Nickelplate is my dad

I like it sofar... fan of windwaker :smile: What would be cool is to possibly mirror the general architecture here, with an alternate 'realistic' setting. You could then warp from abstract to realistic at certain points of the map and get the sense of an alternate yet parrallel universes.

Not too much of a jump from Peter Manson cliffs, really...

Something to make it dynamic would be switches that can be shot (or elaboratly triggered though some crazy machine) to cause the hexagons to raise and lower. You could even have some come out of the sky and crush players. You could have them fan out and make a spiral platform to a domination weapon after some series of events occur.

Finger has a cool idea too.

something that would be pretty cool, and disorienting, is having a teleport at the edges of the map that circle the player around. You could have "traps" that fling them in directions and such. A "flip" grid on the bottom that would rotate up with a switch, trigger, whatever, revealing the same land mass, but realistic would be really cool. Obviously, launching the player in the process. You could probably get certain paths going (based on force and position, with some testing you'd figure out common spots in the air) and place some obscure blockade that can come up out of the ground or something as such.

It'd probably require the playing feild to be half way between the bottom and top of the map. Having the realistic side on the bottom (upside down) and what you have no on top. You could then have some nicely placed teleporters and enough draw distance to make it looks seemlessly circular. (You could get launched in the air and smack into the floor that is underneath everyone else, get it?)

Or you can completley ignore me.

But those are some suggestions based on what you currently have.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Hmmm... Or, if you feel like doing alot of entities instead of size and grandure, a mass button that removes all the hexagons, and makes it all normal. So a button that transforms Hexagons to normal, and a button that does the reverse, Assuming you use quite a few clip brushes and some kill entities, should be pheasable, and more impressive than a huge hexagonal map.

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-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-

Initially I was going for something entirely abstract, then I played
around with a beehive kinda thing, but eventually I settled on this
island setting.

I've just about finished a beehive map,
Breakhive, based
on a breakable staggered hexagonal grid. It does stress the
source engine in that each hex is a entity and its pretty much maxed
out the model and entdata pools. The nice thing about the
structure is that as you dig through the honeycomb you have 12
directions to go. (3 up, 3 down, 6 sideways)

Well, if you're making a map of such nature why not make it steel
panthers like, with grass and small forests on the ground to add some
diversity. For those of you who don't know, this is how one of the
greatest TBSs of the past looked like.



It has an option to turn the hexgrid off or on so that's why it's missing here.

Maybe you could put 1 non-hex object per hex tile (and maybe some tiles with nothing on them), sort of like the hex-based 2d games in this thread. eg: on the green hex tiles, you put a tree. On some the sand hex tiles, you put some driftwood. On the grey hex tiles, you put a rock, etc.

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http://maze5.net

And on the edges, you could build streets, while on the vertices, villages and city's would...



Still reminds me of that game... :wink: Perhaps you could use that in some
way for your level, like placing the level in a giant rooms, with hands
moving tiles and such? That would need modelling but I think such
effects would be really... weird...

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

You shouldt have all those hexagonal blocks the same size. No matter how big it's gonna be, one sort of blocks will be boring.

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:: Forceflow.be :: Nuclear Dawn developer

Captain P said:
And on the edges, you could build streets, while on the vertices, villages and city's would...



Still reminds me of that game... :wink: Perhaps you could use that in some way for your level, like placing the level in a giant rooms, with hands moving tiles and such? That would need modelling but I think such effects would be really... weird...

That looks like something out of "Jumping Flash". :wink: I would say this is a great idea, have an individual world for each hex (and maybe still hold the cel shading? :biggrin: ) Also, have you considered having any floating hexez?

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Breaking the laws of mapping since 2003 and doing a damn fine job at it

Boardgames like that remind me of risk!

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-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-

Zone of the Enders 2 had this boss fight with hexagons flying everywhere!
It was crazy hmm let me see if I can get a picture:

http://www.gamehope.com/s0106/img06/2b325e8ef4.jpg

Damn it is so small but you can see tiny floating things around him :smile:

Captain P: The map isn't anything like that sort of scale I'm afraid -
its 1x1 scale, just split into a hexagonal heightmap of sorts.

Forceflow: It wouldn't fit together as a grid if they aren't the same size.

Habboi: Can't quite make out, well, anything there :biggrin: But yeah, hexagons rock, as this P.N.03 wallpaper demonstrates...

http://www.cubedomain.nl/images/wallpapers/pn03_2_1024.jpg

Maze: I think I'll probably go with something along these lines, and
try to continue the hexagon theme into them (eg. hexagonal knots in the
wood grain of wooden objects). I may also go slightly away from the
hexagons by having non hexagonal objects above the initial "heightmap".

Thanks for all the comments so far guys :smile:

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

Personally, I don't like the colors much. I like the theme however and suggest that if you didn't consider it yet.. Make this a "King of the hill" style map.

There are to few king type maps, and even less that are done well... You have the skill necessary to make a proper king type map if you chose to do so.

Good luck Duncan. :smile:

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The best things in life, aren't things.

http://www.cubedomain.nl/images/wallpapers/pn03_2_1024.jpg

Wait, there are hexagons in that picture?

Oh, right.

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http://maze5.net

There is something disturbing about people who notice animated females.

And you guys have the nerve to say I am weird with my "pee and poo" thing.

toddles off to change plastic lined undergarment

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The best things in life, aren't things.

But the game developers make women for the women players! Yerrss... thats it...

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-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-

Personally I think it looks like on the of the coolest most innovative Half Life 2 maps to date. And I love the solid colors.

Something you might want to consider doing and I can't tell from the screenshots whether this is happening, is someone figured out a way to fake cell shading without a mod. Really quite clever... everything has a shell that's a unit or two large with a black texture on the inside. The outside is nodraw, so only the outline shows up. I remember that's how we used to do it (although not with hollowed boxes) in pre-rendered apps before all these fancy dancy renderers such as Toon! came out, and it usually works pretty well, especially with rigid bodies... such as a hexagonal map. Then you could have bold outlines and narrow ... inlines... I guess you could call them.

Just something to think about.

I gave that a shot actually while playing around with a few ideas, but
it isn't without its problems. One of the problems is that it doesn't
like objects to touch, as then the "outline" brushes you made overlap
the adjacent objects, and that causes somewhat unwanted visual results.
There may be a way around this (I've seen a few different cel-shading
effects over the years), but the couple of approaches I tried didn't
end up too successful.

Thanks for the suggestion though, and I'm glad you like the look of the map :smile:

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

Were those screenshots taken with AA on? Or will it not antialias textures within a brush?

My computer is seriously odd with the HL2 settings - many of them don't
SEEM to work. I've set my graphics card settings to "application
controlled" so I'm not forcing AA/AF off or anything, but they don't
seem to do much regardless. My new 6800GT should be here tomorrow, so
I'll see how it looks then.

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

Got any update pictures yet? I was hoping to see some new ones as I saw last reply Reno...

Settlers (the board game above) is an amazing game for anyone who likes
board games. I rarely buy them and I ditched out 40$ american for it.
Reno already knows how I feel about his level :razz: