I think of giving up modding business :(

Oh well. The best place I could come to and complain.

It all started January 2005 when I started Strikeback project. It was a HL2 SP modification. I got a good team but... most of them were lazy. It failed five months later.

I tried joining Nightfall project. Fortunately they had enough level designers, so I could stay as backup and help out Head-Humped instead. It is dieing out as nobody is doing anything for it. (?)

After it was clear it would be dead, I joined Opposing Source - a remake of Opposing Force with Source engine. Died two weeks after I joined and post pics of my progress.

Today, a mod named Opposing Shephard (a follow up for OPF), I got a message from team leader it was cancelled. Then it got clear.

A clue:
I think of leaving Incoming-Source. It looks good and I don't want it to be dead.

It seems as if I have a curse on me that would stop any mod I have contributed for to succeed.

Or what you think?

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HL2 tutorials 'n' stuff: http://madedog.pri.ee
217.159.236.34:27050 - CSS Server - Clean | koffer.ee

Aww, Oposing Source had some beautiful work.

I don't think it's you - it's the mods. There's so many mods that fail so getting on a mod that succeeds or continues for more than a few months is rare as far as I know.
So far, I've worked on about three mods, two failed, one is still in production and going very slow.

Funny, as I was asked to join Opposing Source as well. I didn't accept it back then and two weeks later, the mod was dead indeed.

And so we get the saying 'Idea's are plenty, people who work them out are not'... which makes me think, I'd better pick the ones that finish their work over the ones that have enormeous talent.

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

I've worked on about 5 mods over the years and the only one that didn't
die was the one that was already up and running when I made maps for it
(the original Adrenaline Gamer). It's sad, but the truth is that the
vast majority of mods never see their first release version. You may
want to consider releasing a couple of maps for established games/mods,
such as HL2, HL2DM, HL2CTF, CS:S or DoD:S, or try and get in with one
of the "this is definately gonna happen" mods like Insurgency,
Dystopia, Black Mesa: Source, and the like. Problem is that those teams
are probably pretty well established by now, and quite possibly not
looking for new staff. They are also the teams that have the strictest
recruitment procedures and demand the highest quality.

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

I've never been part of a modding team, but I can imagine how difficult
it can be to find a team thats dedicated, motivated, and
talented. I don't think you're cursed, it's just the odds of
being part of a successful mod aren't very high.

There are 2 kinds of mods: incremental mods and radical mods.

Most incremental mods get finished because the time to completion is less than the span of motivation. The problem is that these run-off the mill mods aren't different enough for most talented mappers to be interested.

Then there are radical mods. Now mappers become interested. One of the mods Reno talks about is paroxysm. We had some of the most talented mappers i know working on it including CJ and CJ. Yet it died.

The problem is that these mods need an incredible and lasting amount of motivation from the key members in the dev team, and a big fanbase community. Fortress Forever is one of such mods who has this. But here there's a history, and in that respect it isnt radical gameplay-wise (rather implemetation-wise).

i only commit myself to mods where i know i will have enough motivation to complete atleast one map, and where i know the mod has the 2 elements mentioned above. But for truly radical mods you can never be certain that these 2 elements will remain as time goes by, as was the case for paroxysm.

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These words are my diaries screaming out loud

<span style="color: white;">I don't think it's not you
</span>

That's rather insulting...

Hehe, you're right, FT. Edited my post. :smile:

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

Naww, I think I'm gonna go into Unreal or the like.
Also, I might of think myself as a programmer somewhere. Been doing it for couple of years now...

oh well.

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HL2 tutorials 'n' stuff: http://madedog.pri.ee
217.159.236.34:27050 - CSS Server - Clean | koffer.ee

i wish i started with unreal mapping

much more rewarding then hl2 and the community is waayy better.

I tried Unreal mapping, didnt enjoy it at all... but if you want a job in the games industry, experience with Unreal helps, since youve got both styles of level design (additive and subtractive) covered.

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"If you talk at all during this lesson, you have detention. Do you understand?"

• My yr11 Economics teacher

Most mods start off with too much ambition, and not enough backup.

Plus I think that most mods are just clones of one another. Not
actually doing anything original. I mean Ive heard of 3 different
opposing force mods around, 3 Co-Op mods (Not the Sven mod) that
eventually combined into "synergy".

And then there are the mods that aren't REALLY mods, more of map packs with a new weapon.

I know I was part of your mod Madedog (Strike Back). But long before
you recruited me, I had joined up with
Eternal-Silence. Therefore I
must say that im sorry, I didn't bring it down, but nore did I do
anything to keep it going. Truth be told I turned my attention to
Eternal Silence (cough and WoW).

The point is, don't give up. You'll eventually find one that will go all the way.

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Posting And You

I think WoW is probably one of the biggest mod killers of the past year or two :biggrin:

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

It's probably the culprit in all the deaths of children relating to neglidgence from their parents.

It's probably the culprit in all the deaths of children relating to neglidgence from their parents.

Drop it already. I know several married couples in WoW that stop and
take time to spend with their children "mommy time" as they call it.

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Posting And You

Hot button issue?

ReNo said:
I think WoW is probably one of the biggest mod killers of the past year or two :biggrin:

It may have contributed, but the disappointments related to HL2 kinda guaranteed it IMO.

WoW must be all that and a bag of chips though. Any Pay-to-Play game starts in a negative just by its very nature of being pay-to-play.

When you consider its popularity, it must be good. (although, stupid people still insist that a killbox is fun too so I am still hesitant to believe totally)

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The best things in life, aren't things.

I for one am very close to giving-up on mapping. It's just not fun
anymore, plus not knowing how to model is a huge handicap today and that sucks.

So learn how to model; you might get more enjoyment out of it and as you say, it is becoming an important part of mapping :smile:

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

Yeah, modelling isn't too hard and it's fun once you get the hang of it. Models are most of the times much faster to do than complete levels (though skinning them or actually creating those skins is still time-consuming if you want to do it good imho), so they require shorter concentration and motivation spans.

I'm not creating levels these days due to busy schedules and such, plus my interest is moving to game-development in general rather than level-design only. HL2 doesn't attract me too much anymore these days, it's totally different than HL was anyway, but I also think my age has something to do with that. Back then HL was everything I knew to map for, now I see so much more possibilities and area's of interest that I'm not going to stick to something that's just marginally interesting.
Sure I'm going to finish mudanchee and maybe do a few small levels now and then, but that's been my HL time then. Time to move on... to other mapping jobs... :smile: <br style="font-family: Verdana;">

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

if i may take ya's on a short trip....

ive been a drafter for mm...20+ years. the last mm...15 have been devoted in part to cad, autocad to be specific, and it has served me well....about the time i was going through a phase of bore-dome (a classic yet symptemtic condition somewhere between boredom and burnout) and was contemplating hari cari to change my outlook....when the dooms hit, and then HL came on the scene. merely by happenstance did i play it, as i wasnt a huge gamer, but i instantly fell for the graphics end of it, partly because the editor was a very close copy of the basic autocad layout. ease of use, and good intuition (we are after all, talking about a game editor... :smile: ) and dxf files....woo weee....ive found a new and inspirational outlet, with near instant gratification....sweet! a creative outlet that i could actually use as a work tool as well....and then to have a place like the pit, dedicated to advancement of the cause. pppfffttt...i could work all night, and did, many times.....

fun fun fun, and i actually enjoyed work again....

enter Source....

where did the dxf's go, btw?

they removed the simplistic style. to me, that was half the fun of mapping. making something out of completely nothing. learning to work within constraints. etc etc.....

very powerful engine it is...and it is, imho, obviously more condusive to complete modding than simple level design. i dont think theyve even scratched the surface yet. itll be a kickass setup once the limits are truly tested by the creative and taleted few who endure....but the dedication factor vs time, energy, and the simple "will to live" on your own personal level, will determine whether you want to continue or not.

its not a bad thing to advance....not by any means...be all you can be. just dont forget yer roots.. :wink:

//end rant

Doc B... :dodgy:

Doc, couldn't you still import dxf's into hammer3.5, and save them as .map or .rmf, and then open them in source?

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i eat paint

Models I'd like to see inside maps. Everyday, overlooked items.

• Fire Hydrant
• Phone booth
• Broken section's IE..roofs, walls, rubble.
• Mobile homes/campers
• Auto parts IE.. engine blocks and transmissions.
• Ash tray's and Cigarette machines
• Port-a-loo's/Port-a-potties
• School Desk's

The list goes on and on. In theory, we can make anything, why don't we?

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The best things in life, aren't things.

This is a small detail, but they modelled a fire hydrant for cs_assault.

fishy said:
Doc, couldn't you still import dxf's into hammer3.5, and save them as .map or .rmf, and then open them in source?

You could never import dxf, only export it.

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"If you talk at all during this lesson, you have detention. Do you understand?"

• My yr11 Economics teacher