Warning Signs.

Everyone seems to have a different opinion on the "Life" left in Half-Life. Some are certain its dead. Others are still as perky as we were back in 1999/2000.

My question isn't exactly to do with that.So please do not take up any imaginary gauntlets and go on a crusade trying to convince everyone that Half-Life is a live and well.

My question is: What would have to happen, or not happen to convince you that Half-Life is dying? I mean, what series of events would it take to convince you?

For me its 3 things. I will post them in order of importance,most serious first.

1) I look at maps today and think, "This is the best..." Notice, no question mark. No exclamation point. Just a sentence that ends abruptly. Maps today are IMO many levels less impressive than at the height of the HL1 series of editing. Its reached the point to where many of us who were around then either have to bite our tongues, in some cases pretty hard, or just not comment at all.

2) I remember getting 10 requests to critique a map a day. I'd be damned lucky to receive 1 request in ten days now. Mappers just do not seem all that interested in positive feedback. They seem much more interested in positive reinforcement. If you are not willing to stroke their ego's, they simply don't have time for you. Whats worse, manners has taken a serious nose dive. I used to be in every credits that I assisted on. I was used to seeing either "[DRS]Orpheus or simply Orpheus" I kinda like how my name is spelled in fact. So much so that misspelling it irks the s**t out of me. Spelling my name as "The Gang At Snarkpit" just won't cut it. I dedicated my time, the least they can do is dedicate enough time to proper spelling.

3) One would think that growing up would be the worse thing. This event would spell the doom of HL. The opposite is true. Growing up is definitely what many of todays mappers need. My concern however is that most of the mappers are "Growing Away" They have simply lost interest, or have commitments that supersede the idea of dedicating weeks or months to a map.

Anyway, these are the three warning signs that have me convinced that Half-Life has done exactly that. Its about halfway dead now. In a couple more cycles, there will not be a life worth mentioning.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

Its easy to start mapping, its harder to finish.

If your talking about hl1 and hl2, well hl2 replaced hl1 as the choice mapping platform, there is so much more you can do with source... and yet, so much less is done. Maybe its because hl1 had more of a challenge, if you wanted to do something BIG you had to really work at it, get your r_speeds under 800. Now, well you can make a huge map, and so what if some people get 15 fps your monster computer can take it.

hl1 used to have a nice little test you had to complete before you could start mapping, the game config. If you couldn't follow the instructions in the help document you couldn't play with hammer. Now its just a matter of picking which game you want to map for and everything is there, no more collecting wads and sound files. It is all right there, and everyone uses them, thus it is all cliche now. If you don't have custom textures your map is just another European city with rusty cars everywhere, or a combine outpost.

Players will play anything! It used to be that a fullbright map would run so poorly that it would be a joke to play online, now if your map is fullbright it makes the other people in the box easier to shoot. No one cares that there is a bus inside of a nondescriptive room with no bus sized door. As long as they can crush their foe with it...

Maybe valve just made a game that is just too fun. Who needs to spend months on a single map when the game makes up for all the shortcomings in a map.

It used to be that the only credit the mapper would get was a little room hidden in their map with a little. Now mappers have "egos" and splatter their name all over their map. Its not about craft but who can make a silly "fun" map, so why waist your time creating a work or art when no one will download or play it? Servers don't run your map because its a 3 minute download off the server. If its not fast its not worth it.

Fy_iceworld was the beginning of the end.

/wow that turned into a rant...

I'd say the end of HL is nie when the servers are heavily lacking, no-one plays CS, TFC is dead, and the great mods of HL (Sven-Coop, The Specialists) aren't played.

Another "doomsday theory" would be that Valve would release the source code to Half-Life. You know how Quake multiplayer died? id released the source code, and cheating became extremely easy -- servers couldn't combat it, and Quake1 died in flash. I figure the same would happen with Half-Life.

As far HL2 goes, while you can easily fire Hammer up and start mapping... the whole mapping process is more tedius. Hammer 4.0 is buggy, takes forever to load, requires Steam, and most HL2 maps can't look good unless every single area of the map is loaded with HL2 effects. In Half-Life, some good lighting and some nice textures, and you were in business :smile: Half-Life 1 mapping was really mapping, not 50% map and 50% models. Half-Life 1 mapping is funner, anyway. On a final side note, I have no reason to do HL2 mapping until Sven-Coop2 is released.

---

Breaking the laws of mapping since 2003 and doing a damn fine job at it

DrGlass said:
It used to be that the only credit the mapper would get was a little room hidden in their map with a little. Now mappers have "egos" and splatter their name all over their map.

Well, "Nipper" liked to splatter his name all over his maps in HL1.

Anyway, as for warning signs for when HL dies. I'd just say it's pure numbers... number of servers running HL1DM and HL1 mods, number of players playing on said server and numbers of maps being released or mods being worked on. Those numbers are decreasing.

I'm a little confused about your question. Are you specifically referring to Halflife 1 mapping? If so, I'd say that night has long since fallen on that old beauty.... when the community boils down to the very few hardcore remaining players, and the mapping scene has moved on to bigger and better things. These things have already happened.

Now, if you're referring to Halflife mapping in general, or DM mapping, then that's another story.

It's true, DM mapping isn't what it used to be. DM isn't what it used to be. The game world has moved on a little since then and the focus is no longer on Deathmatch games. Now, the majority of the new talent is more interested in CS, DOD, or any of the other 50 shooter mods out there. I don't blame them either. If I was still trying to break into the scene, I would probably want to put my effort into mapping for a mod that had a bigger crowd and more potential to be in the limelight. Mapping is no longer a hobby... it's a valid career now. We've seen enough people just in this small community who have moved up the ladder to professionals to know that it's an achievable goal. I think most kids who live and breathe mapping just aren't hanging out at the ole snarkpit, and they don't really care about HLDM. Therefore, we don't see them. If you look at the HL websites though, you will see a ton of great looking maps for up and coming mods, really quality stuff.

Also, with the leap in detail from HL1 to HL2, it just takes so much more to fully realize a map. Like someone said before, there was a time when a simple but well crafted room with a few good textures looked great. Now we expect so much more, and not just on the architecture level. Now you have normal mapping, specular mapping, hdr, modeling with high end 3d programs, a handful of compilers and pipelines to figure out.. if you really want to use Source to it's full potential. This wall of stuff to learn and master is a huge filter that weeds out a ton of people.

Anyway..... bah.. what was the question?

yes, i've noticed something about "half-life" is dying.
no, it's not what it used to be anymore.
yes, about both half-life and counter-strike, people is losing interest on them.

when i knew this game existed, when i knew i could make my own maps and models for it, i remember there were way more websites where you could download maps and models, they were easy to find. now there are some only.
there were a lot of server full of people playing HL, no bots, real people. now if you see 'crossfire' with '15/20' players, 10 of them are bots. there are so little HLDM servers now.

here, everyone used to play both HL and CS a lot, everyone! now only some.

well, about HL2... when i first played DM online, it was very disappoiting. now you don't really use your weapons, you just need to have the gravity gun, pick up an object and throw it against other players. it's boring! it's not like HL1, HL1 is way cooler, but too little people plays it.

and Valve is releasing only Episodes now. the same thing but new maps. boring. and they are expensive.
if they release a HL2 mod, it's not for free.

to map for HL2 you need a GoOd comp. i can't map for HL2 because Hammer eats all my ram.

and i completely agree with DrGlass...

Well, what i 'said' made sense? i just type random ideas that (often) don't have anything to do with the main theme/subject.

Anyway, this sounds to me like Nintendo's current situation. they act like they had 100HP, but actually, they're dying.

Let's Cry Gabe A River.

I'd say the end of HL is nie when the servers are heavily
lacking, no-one plays CS, TFC is dead, and the great mods of HL
(Sven-Coop, The Specialists) aren't played.

Another "doomsday
theory" would be that Valve would release the source code to Half-Life.
You know how Quake multiplayer died? id released the source code, and
cheating became extremely easy -- servers couldn't combat it, and
Quake1 died in flash. I figure the same would happen with Half-Life.

As
far HL2 goes, while you can easily fire Hammer up and start mapping...
the whole mapping process is more tedius. Hammer 4.0 is buggy, takes
forever to load, requires Steam, and most HL2 maps can't look good
unless every single area of the map is loaded with HL2 effects. In
Half-Life, some good lighting and some nice textures, and you were in
business :smile: Half-Life 1 mapping was really mapping,
not 50% map and 50% models. Half-Life 1 mapping is funner, anyway. On a
final side note, I have no reason to do HL2 mapping until Sven-Coop2 is
released.

But on the other hand... Quake 1 source code lives strong as ever.
There are standalone games that have everything from Q3 maps to HDR
lighting in them. All based in Quake 1 source. You don't see much
cheating in them although all of them are GPLed because the Q1 source
is GPL and thus everyone has access to the sourcecode. And HL1 servers
are already full of people with all sorts of hacks already. All you
need to do is to join a CS 1.6 server that's VAC secured and you'll
see(not that I'd play CS anymore).

Also I still see QuakeWorld servers and people who play on them.
They've told me though that they're dying breed that leave the scene
one by one and no new flesh comes in... Quake is still dying and in
process of rebirth so I guess it will take quite some time before HL
gets shot down(everyone was chanting in 2003 that HL2 will kill HL, but
I still see a lot of HL1 players online.).

I think the biggest turn off in creativity and Source mapping is that
it's like G.Ballblue said, you need to know how to model to map
properly these days and even though it's easier to get started it's
even harder to finish with good results. And don't even get me started
on the new Hammer... I've used it total 4 hours now and my nervers are
destroyed because of its bugginess(I actually installed the beta SDK to
make it work better, but it's bug riddled too and I'm slowly becoming
very angry in here).

Now that I give serious though to it... it might very well be that I'll
fire up GTKRadiant again after all this time and forget Source until
the editor matures up a bit... Intresting though.

---

''Everyone wades in s**t until they're competent enough to walk on it. Jesus style.''
Dystopia - Empires

I think steam and it's glorious buggines is slowly killing Half-Life (2).
It is for me, at least. Relying so much on that platform and whether it
works or not makes me feel like I don't own my own game.

As for HL1, it's a 10 year old game so it's only natural that it be declared obsolete.

However the lack of maturity of today's gamer is a clear sign of doom.
Not that Half-life will die, but that people will no longer be
interested in online play when they know that the servers are enhabited
by lee...erm, l337 k33dz and their k3wl sp3hling yo!

[edit]

Oh, and when you load-up the CSS server list and see that each and
every server is running de_dust,
de_dust2,de_dust_pcg,de_dust_remake,de_dust_timmy,de_minidust,
de_dust3,de_dust4, de_dusty and fy_iceworld, you simply know in the
depths of your mind that the end of decent gaming is long past,
especially when it comes to CSS. I long for the times when there was no
such thing as dust and people would play some militia, some siege
perhaps a little boats and tundra. Now, these people play dust for
hundreds of hours in a row because they all keep voting for "extend",
and if, by chance, they decide to change the map, they'll change it to
some s**tty killbox with missing textures and crappy framerates. /rant
over

Finger said:
Anyway..... bah.. what was the question?

For the record, when I said "Half-Life" I meant all aspects of the game genre.
The question isn't whether its a live or dead. I am curious to know what events would have to happen to trigger your warning button?

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Orpheus said:
The question isn't whether its a live or dead. I am curious to know what events would have to happen to trigger your warning button?

Something that would trigger my warning button would be the death of sites like this one, interlopers, etc.

I hope that I do not need to remind you that sites do die. PFL had its heyday and its gone. Snarkpit is but a pale shadow of its former self. Most of the sites I visit today are packed full of kids or players. I can deal with the kids. They are young enough to blame their age but those players are... They gotta go. :rolleyes:

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

Yeah, sites do die, HL sites have died, but when SnarkPit and Interlopers shuts down because no one posts anymore, then for me, HalfLife is dead.

Thou shalt be sentenced to the dunking-stool for using the words snarkpit and shut-down in the same sentence! Heathen!

Sorry! knocks on wood

I used to love mapping. But since the release of Source (And since I have purchased HL2) I have NEVER completed a map. I just simply feel discouraged, unrewarded, and part of a dying breed. I hate Source mapping, simply because my creativity is horribly limited. Face it, source mapping is modeling - without being able to model your maps are worthless.

And when I read the SDK I felt really depressed. Everything in it seemed to relate to large corporations. Just reading the "How to make a mod" section refered to a bunch of payed people who release their crap on a commercial market.

Mapping is not the fun 1 person hobby anymore, it is practicly all aimed at commercial teams. The only thing that is coughed out by one person are the MOUNTAINS of crap CSS aim/fy/surf maps.

The conclusion: I simply dont enjoy source mapping. I find everything has to be too perfect, and it just SUCKS. Who cares if it has some buggy fancy effects?
Source mapping is nearly all about entertaining the player, not yourself.

You know, someone hit it.

Dust

This style of map was the first step. A map that is more its layout than anything else. It used to be that a map had a story, I'm talking CS now. Then came Dust, oh boy was it fun but it lacked something... there was no plot, there was no setting (oh sure a dusty town place) dust could have used ANY three textures.
But I can't blame a single map, no it wasn't the mapper's fault for making a great map. The real cancer of mapping is orginized team play.

This force simply killed mapping, people don't want intresting, dynamic maps. Many mappers want to make the next cpl map or the next cool "training" map. Every map needs a place for the AWP to shoot, there is no more gun play. If it isn't the dealge, M4, AK, or AWP it isn't a gun in CS. Backally, siege, militia, tundra... they don't fit the Clan play template. Maps are built around clones of the dust2 layout.

Not only that but when Clans need a break they go to the little fy, aim, surf maps.

Worst thing is that most of the people playing these games, and thus our adiance don't know what tundra or siege is. Its all about Kill to Death ratios, not about a fun game.

There will never be another 747 and thats why CS and half life is dead.

/man this thread is depressing.

Be the change you want to see in this world doc :smile:

I hate Dust/Dust2 and stuff because you cant to any proper sniping. Sniping is a highly tactical part in a strategy. I read an entire 60 page gaming manuel on sniping. It applies to all games.

This is why I now always play BF2.

I feel like Long A on Dust2 is a pretty good place to snipe, as is the nest CT side in Dust.

I hate Dust/Dust2 and stuff because you cant to any proper sniping.

Nothing beats the noobs standing at the window or on the roof in cs_militia :biggrin: . I love them, they give me frags :evilgrin: .

Orpheus said:
Everyone seems to have a different opinion on the "Life" left in Half-Life. Some are certain its dead. Others are still as perky as we were back in 1999/2000.

My question isn't exactly to do with that.So please do not take up any imaginary gauntlets and go on a crusade trying to convince everyone that Half-Life is a live and well.

My question is: What would have to happen, or not happen to convince you that Half-Life is dying? I mean, what series of events would it take to convince you?

For me its 3 things. I will post them in order of importance,most serious first.

1) I look at maps today and think, "This is the best..." Notice, no question mark. No exclamation point. Just a sentence that ends abruptly. Maps today are IMO many levels less impressive than at the height of the HL1 series of editing. Its reached the point to where many of us who were around then either have to bite our tongues, in some cases pretty hard, or just not comment at all.

2) I remember getting 10 requests to critique a map a day. I'd be damned lucky to receive 1 request in ten days now. Mappers just do not seem all that interested in positive feedback. They seem much more interested in positive reinforcement. If you are not willing to stroke their ego's, they simply don't have time for you. Whats worse, manners has taken a serious nose dive. I used to be in every credits that I assisted on. I was used to seeing either "[DRS]Orpheus or simply Orpheus" I kinda like how my name is spelled in fact. So much so that misspelling it irks the s**t out of me. Spelling my name as "The Gang At Snarkpit" just won't cut it. I dedicated my time, the least they can do is dedicate enough time to proper spelling.

3) One would think that growing up would be the worse thing. This event would spell the doom of HL. The opposite is true. Growing up is definitely what many of todays mappers need. My concern however is that most of the mappers are "Growing Away" They have simply lost interest, or have commitments that supersede the idea of dedicating weeks or months to a map.

Anyway, these are the three warning signs that have me convinced that Half-Life has done exactly that. Its about halfway dead now. In a couple more cycles, there will not be a life worth mentioning.

1) I don't know what you mean. The quality of maps now is way way higher than before. With the advent of models, better lighting, physics, etc. Mappers can now add tons more detail into their maps and achieve better realism. I love the fact that I can use props to add detail to my map. It makes things much faster and models look way better than props. However the maps aren't made of models. You still need to be good with brush work, texturing, lighting, sounds, and layout. Just yesterday I played the what was probably the best looking map I have seen in my life on CSS.

Here's some links to some high quality maps.

http://www.mapcore.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3837

http://www.mapcore.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4842

http://www.mapcore.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4418

http://www.mapcore.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4659

http://forum.interlopers.net/viewtopic.php?t=10540

http://forum.interlopers.net/viewtopic.php?t=11727

http://forum.interlopers.net/viewtopic.php?t=11785

http://www.mapcore.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5532

http://www.mapcore.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4596

2) The reason why your not getting more requests is because the Snarkpit just isn't as active as it use to be. The reason why? Well it might just have to do with some people's attitudes on this site. Someone from Interlopers.net said that they had joined this site but then promptly left because he thought the people on this site acted like assholes.

3) Alot of the old timers from the HL1 days are grown up, and now have familys and jobs. A new fresh crowd is coming in. No matter whether this was HL1 or HL2 there will always be the immature crowd. You've just got to give a lot of these fresh faces a little time to grow up.

You should really stop looking at the negatives. Things aren't as bad as you made them out to be, and in some ways things have improved. Instead sitting around talking about all the negatives you see try contributing something to the community that will help things.

Since when where snipers noobs? Actually the other way round, sniping is the only aspect in CS that actually requires skill. And I mean proper sniping. In the manuel it says a "real" sniper is one that eliminates and there noone EVER knows their position. Most of the Awpers just run around like maniacs!

I think the demands and increased expectations that these new game engines have is slowly "killing" things off. Its not HL specifically because all new games are following the same path. New graphics don't mean a better gaming experience, it means a more immersive experience and that requires making stuff more realistic and/or detailed. I dread to think what degree of detail I will have to deal with when I attempt to make a map for something like HL3. HL mapping (and I would imagine modding in general) was much more "fun", there wasn't as much niggly detail, stuff to tweak, etc. For instance, I didn't have to have a big stress over the look of the cliffs in my maps dustrace and cocaine, because it was HL and how realistic did they really have to be?

---

Hello there.

Im still wandering wether I should still map. If I did, there is NO WAY I would be mapping mods. I would stick to CSS/DOD/HL2DM mapping. Making a mod for HL2 is just plain impossible for 1 person. With the expectations...

The dilution of the community was always going to happen. With every year that goes by there are more and more and more games & consoles. Think of everything that has been released over the last several years since HL1:

Almost the entire PS2 lifespan. The entire lifespans of the Xbox, Gamecube, 360, PSP, DS and GBA. The explosion of other big franchises like GTA and Halo. The sports domination of EA. A good few thousand PC games, lots of which are moddable too. Not to mention the continued advancements in other entertainment areas such as TV, mobile phones, iPods, digital photography, etc etc.

Simply, there are more ways than ever for people to entertain themselves and be creative, and this is reflected in the smaller communities for each particular game and generally speaking people in those communities being less committed as they're dividing their time between different hobbies.

DrGlass, I couldn't disagree with you more!

I believe the problem is this need for a setting, this need for realism, this "need".

Remember Quake 2? Mindless random violence. It was great. HL1- the levels made no sense, bootcamp? Wtf, it was just random empty rooms! The problem arose when games started looking good. Everyone started putting in more effort. Before long, things had to be a certain way, and people were thinking too much in some areas rather than others.

I believe a massive problem with HL2 was valves lack of emphasis on the orange mapping and the texture sets. The theme was also a big mistake. Before, a corridor would have been 2 walls, a floor and a ceiling. Some guy comes along and says- "wait a minute, lets make this have trims". Oooh, looks good. Some other guy comes along- "lets put in some themed lighting". Before long, a simple 10 second job became days of work, sorting out complex lighting to create themed environments. The emphasis became about atmosphere. Before long, mapping became a complex procedure. It became less cartoony, and I think that is the problem.

However, there is hope. TF2 is on the horizon, even more cartoony than ever! I believe its "The Incredibles" look and style will help with cartoonier, simpler maps, reviving the community. It was TFC and HLDM that nutured mappers back in the day. Cartoony, crazy, non sensical whackey environments that didn't need detail.

/end rant

/new rant

People forget- Valves first game was HL1. Their second was HL2. They had beginners luck- people expected another HL1.

---

-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-

Myrk, I'm split 50/50 on what you just said:

HL1- the levels made no sense, bootcamp? Wtf, it was just random empty rooms! The problem arose when games started looking good.

Before, a corridor would have been 2 walls, a floor and a ceiling. Some guy comes along and says- "wait a minute, lets make this have trims". Oooh, looks good. Some other guy comes along- "lets put in some themed lighting". Before long, a simple 10 second job became days of work, sorting out complex lighting to create themed environments.

Some svencoop maps, which consist of the "2 walls, a floor, and a cieling" theory are played quite a lot -- take svencoop1.bsp for instance. The issue that I see here is, do you not want maps to get better? Remember that bootcamp was an absolutely huge map, and considering the date at which it was made, I doubt that it could have handled anything more than empty random rooms.

On the flip side, sometimes a nice "simple hallway" is all that is needed for the map. If I were to say, "I think this hallway needs some supportive bars going down the cieling." then I would add that. If I thought that the hallway looked just fine as it is, or succesfully conveyed its purpose, I'd leave it.

I believe the problem is this need for a setting, this need for realism, this "need"

Maps need what they need, I feel. If I feel that the map I am trying to build "needs" more of something, I would add it. Coincidentally, adding things just for the hell of it/because you think that the map will look asoundingly better aren't a good idea either.

I believe a massive problem with HL2 was valves lack of emphasis on the orange mapping and the texture sets.

I don't entirely know what you mean by "orange mapping", but I'd say that the texture set themselves weren't very adaptable. The Black Mesa textures from HL1 could go just about anywhere -- whereas, the HL2 textures didn't look right unless they were pasted on exactly what they were designed for.

---

Breaking the laws of mapping since 2003 and doing a damn fine job at it

Since when where snipers noobs? Actually the other way round,
sniping is the only aspect in CS that actually requires skill. And I
mean proper sniping. In the manuel it says a "real" sniper is one that
eliminates and there noone EVER knows their position. Most of the
Awpers just run around like maniacs!

That's what I meant. Stupid n00bs with sniper rifles clustered at the window, just ripe to be sniped by your's truly :biggrin: .

There isn't a single TFC server that runs rock2, most are filled with bots so good you can't distinguish them from players (and feel stupid and betrayed after ten minutes).

SI servers have dropped to 2, which are mostly empty.

It just seems like, except for a small and rather elitist group of players, most HL1 mods are dead. And the few players left don't really accept new players and have their own insider-ettiquettes that makes newbies feel uncomfortable; run servers which are "tuned" and crippled while players don't really have many to choose from anyway.

It's no wonder. Hardly any game survived so long and there are still players left after all so I don't think it's as sad as you think.

_________________________________________

I agree with the comments about Source mapping being more tedious. It provokes hyper-simplistic and rather repetitive efforts. And server admins are getting used to it. Splitting the prop-modeling process from mapping has done no good to the quality of Source maps. It would be logical that the next incarnation of Hammer will be somewhat more open to detail geometry and lets you build it inside the editor. Real-time lighting will speed up the mapping process also. sigh This really isn't a golden age for mapping.

I always thought, btw., that Source mapping would be much more of a "team-effort" but it's not really going that way. That could solve the model problematic. Maybe we should get more modelers in the mapping forums (or otherwise)?

PS: I might open a new thread about this...

Jesus, that image is going to give me nightmares now

If svencoop turns into that, I think I'd die! D:

---

Breaking the laws of mapping since 2003 and doing a damn fine job at it

Spartan said:
Instead sitting around talking about all the negatives you see try contributing something to the community that will help things.

You know, I am all for freedom of speech but.. Don't you think thats a bit unfair? I am not going to go out on a limb and say that I have contributed more than so and so, but my contributions to the HL community are substantial. I think that if I quit right this moment, I would still be leagues ahead in the "Plus" column for contributions.

You know you could view THIS THREAD as a contribution of sorts. I sit behind the wheel for days thinking about stuff. One of those things is possible threads to post here.

This thread has nothing to do with Homo's,Religion,or Politics. Its a hypothetical inquiry into the possibility of how YOU the member would react.

It saddens me that you would accuse me of being someone who doesn't promote contributions positively.

---

The best things in life, aren't things.

Isn't this thread kinda about the negatives of the doom of HL? (this being related to Orph's orginal post, Spartan's reply, and Orph's reply to the reply)

The doom of any game is a negative in my opinion :/

---

Breaking the laws of mapping since 2003 and doing a damn fine job at it

This thread is about how Snarkpit is dying - with the owner and chief
coder gone, it is dying. The original core have moved onto real life,
marriage, jobs, graduation etc.

Half Life/Half Life 2 - particularly the mods, are not dying. AFAIK,
CS is still the most popular game online. Not bad for an engine
approaching 10 years old too fast to comprehend.

Perhaps the scene is dying here - it happens. PHL died a death many
moons ago, and that once, was the hub. Mapcore, Interlopers are there
to keep the editing community in full spirits. If people are trying to
cling onto distant memories they are past being in the community.

The active communities, especially mod based, are the places to be for the life of Half Life.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting G.Ballblue</DIV>
<div class="quotetext">
The doom of any game is a negative in my opinion :/</DIV></DIV>

It is about the ending, but not necessarily anything more gloomy than that.

Its a hypothetical question to see just where everyones threshold is for "ADMITTING" that a game is on a downward plunge.

Everything ends. We aren't going to focus on that. What I wanna see is where you draw your own line.

I never suspected so much negativity toward a possibility thats inevitable. :rolleyes:

[EDIT]

Gwil said:
This thread is about how Snarkpit is dying -

No its not. Not unless you want to view it as such. I posted the exact same question at 3 different sites. All of them have decidedly different views on the life and death of HL.. None of the other two could care a whits less if Snarkpit is dying or not. :rolleyes:

You guys are making a mountain out of a molehill. Answer the question or ignore the thread. DO NOT read doom sayer into the mix PLEASE...

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The best things in life, aren't things.

I think negatity can be expected when a very good thing is dying. In this, we are wondering about the death of HL (or the Snarkpit, as Gwil said). The way I see it, it's going to be a very dark day for gaming when HL dwindles down to just a few diehard players.

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Breaking the laws of mapping since 2003 and doing a damn fine job at it

Never mind.

Desperation flounders like a fish on open shores. The tide will never rescue it.

I was genuinely curious. It had no negative connotations in its inception. ALL THREE SITES think/act differently. I wanted to read the replies and compare the comments to see how the mix compares to one another.

Again let me stress.. I meant it as a hypothetical inquiry.

If you are curious, I can post links to the other two threads and you can read them too.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

I'm not curious, i'm stating facts - i'm stating "the way it is". Sites
progress and die, I used those sites as an example. If you were "truly
a mapper" , you would be at all 3 (yes, I know, 56k) and even then you
have to realise, acknowledge one sites time has been and gone.

The Snarkpit was a large blip on the timeline of editing sites, but now
the blip has gone downhill. The community, large community, is
elsewhere.

But,... Are you saying that in answering my question that for you the end of HL is the end of editing sites like Snarkpit?

anyway.. I got so wrapped up in this thread that I hadn't read the other two.. Sadly, they seem more intent on ignoring the question in favor of taking up the gauntlet of defending the life thats left.

sighs

I wonder why I even try to initiate some topics. Everyone seems content in ignoring the premise of the subject in favor of personal favoritism.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Forget it.

Tu parle vraiment, et moi, je suis un bufont - or something.

Is there any chance of Lep ever coming back? I figured he was just addicted to WoW and would maybe return once he burned himself out of that. Or has he washed his hands of this site, and mapping, completely?

Gwil said:
Forget it.

Not likely. Usually, once I understand your concerns, they bother me as much as they do you.

I will however, give it a rest for a while since I seem to be adding to your grief tonight more so than usual...

My apologies Master Gwil.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

He's too busy with other things. I doubt he will ever return to this
site. Whether that is a death knell or not, remains to be seen - but
certainly, Lep has grown beyond the Snarkpit into concerns based
outside of t'net and The Snarkpit. The site will survive in some form,
for a few years yet, if things happen behind the scenes.

Myrk is the man to talk to now - he has direct access to Lep (his brother :razz: ).

Well I would like to start the map mosaic back up in the next few weeks, if anyone would like to help me maybe that could be the boost this site needs. I'd love to run the mosaic under the snarkpit banner, honestly this has been my most favorite community. I mean Interlopers is ok, but... eh... HL2world or what ever it's called is just dirty, I feel gross just going over there.

VERC is dead, to the best of my knowlage.

This seems like the last great place, even though we don't really DO anything. or at least I dont

Ok, well then to summ it up...

To me, the 'death of Halflife' happens when I no longer squeeze any enjoyment from the game, or from mapping. As others have said, communities are shrinking onthe whole, and Halflife Deathmatch mapping has long since had it's time in the limelight... but as long as I still find excitement in mapping or playing, the game will be alive for me. If at some point in the future, the realization strikes me that I haven't played Halflife or opened Hammer in ages, and I am not compelled to do so anymore; then the game will be truly dead.

Gwil said:
He's too busy with other things. I doubt he will ever return to this site. Whether that is a death knell or not, remains to be seen - but certainly, Lep has grown beyond the Snarkpit into concerns based outside of t'net and The Snarkpit. The site will survive in some form, for a few years yet, if things happen behind the scenes.

Myrk is the man to talk to now - he has direct access to Lep (his brother :razz: ).

I don't understand, even with a job and other life duties he should still have enough time to post atleast once a month or so. Why would he never want to come back to this site? It perplexes me.

I can't really talk about this issue because I hardly actively seen Lep on this site in my time here. But I too think it should be possible for him to at least give someone access to the inner workings of the site so some firefox related bugs could be fixed and we aren't screwed to doom if the server's making troubles and no-one's officially responsible for the site.

The Snarkpit may not be the biggest mapping site anymore but it still has the best community and the maps/forum system is excellent if you ignore the few bugs. No other site has its user's maps so well organized. I like it here.

The Server died when I went into banking arrears. Unless people want to
raise cash for another (and it's not cheap for a good one, nor can we
compromise Europe/US base) The Snarkpit Server is officially gone.

? quoting GwilHe's too busy with other things. I doubt he will ever return to this site. Whether that is a death knell or not, remains to be seen - but certainly, Lep has grown beyond the Snarkpit into concerns based outside of t'net and The Snarkpit. The site will survive in some form, for a few years yet, if things happen behind the scenes.
Myrk is the man to talk to now - he has direct access to Lep (his brother :razz: ).

I don't understand, even with a job and other life duties he should still have enough time to post atleast once a month or so. Why would he never want to come back to this site? It perplexes me.

Last I heard he was addicted to World of Warcrack

That too :razz:
Even if he were to come post, it wouldn't make too great an impact on
the community. He was pretty quiet in the past, and I think the main
purpose people want him to return for is big fixing/code development.
That again is large amounts of time.

As I understand it, he makes money off writing code in the daytime
(don't quote me on that though) so I imagine the free time he does have
outside of work, women, family and friends would not be used to code
some more for a game he doesn't play anymore.

I'd be a little fatigued with it if i'd been running a site since the
release of HL1 and the early days of Worldcraft 2.0 off the CD.

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