Oh bugger

Looks like Fraggard was right - the multiplayer in Spirit of HL is awful.

Seems that I'm going to have to fix Spirit's multiplayer (or wait for someone else to do it), if I want my nice spinkee boulder

The alternative is a much uglier boulder; the current one is my pride and joy, and I don't want to lose it.  Once more unto the breach, dear friends....

something tells me that after all this time mike, you'll fair fine with this latest problem..... :heee: if i can lend a hand, just holler... :wink:

Dr Brasso... :dodgy:

I'm thinking MoveWith is probably a bit hacky and eats up a lot of server power. I mean, func_trains are already a bit iffy online. Certainly something more complex would "lag" more or cause problems.

Well, Laurie might be adding a few more little features (UT Sky hack, func_shine) but that's pretty much it for SoHL. He's working on Broken Sword 3 right now I think.

Anyway, good luck on a solution. :smile:

It seems to be a much more fundamental problem than "MoveWith train lag".  On a 54Mbps LAN even datacore lags like a bastard, so there's a real issue with something in Spirit.  Anyway, I'm trying a fix as we speak; very ad hoc, but that attitude has worked for me before...

So, has anyone else ever practicaly built their own mod just so they could implement a cool mapping idea, or is Gollum some sort of record?

Some sort of freak, more like :heee:

Yes, Gollum has been at this project for a while... If it were me, I would have cracked under the stress already and given up...

And wow, Datacore lags? That's definately not good. :sad:

Gollum said:
Some sort of freak, more like :heee:

 Didn't really want to phrase it that way but...

Tracer Bullet said:

Gollum said:
Some sort of freak, more like :heee:

 Didn't really want to phrase it that way but...

why not, if you do so in a very affectionate way it sounds ok :heee:

personally, i think someone should leak out gollums skill level to someone at sierra, i bet they could use someone gifted on the team..

You guys certainly do cheer me up :smile:   I fear, however, that this bug may be beyond my abilities to fix.  Still, you never know until you try.

even better......gifted, AND bearing gifts...../er, maybe ive just been married too long.... :heee:

Dr Brasso... :dodgy:

Well, I do now at least have a basic rolling boulder that works in normal Half-Life (no Spirit required).

Shame it's butt-ugly.  Phong-shading makes such a difference on spheres.

shrugs

Phong shading eh... sounds a bit Llwelleyn-Bowen (wtf, thats blatantly spelt wrong and i'm welsh!) to me!

 

Damn you boulder! YOU MADE GOLLUM CRY!!

why is this boulder so important? release it for HLDM without the boulder. it just sounds like a gimmick; this isn't the kind of thing the gameplay of the whole map should revolve around.

how about making like 50 func_train boulders all avelocitying in different directions and at path_corners where it would turn, teleport the current boulder to a box in space, and use "fire on pass" to teleport another boulder (rotating a different way) into another path_corner at the same location?

mazemaster said:
how about making like 50 func_train boulders all avelocitying in different directions and at path_corners where it would turn, teleport the current boulder to a box in space, and use "fire on pass" to teleport another boulder (rotating a different way) into another path_corner at the same location?

I've tried that teleporting solution before; it doesn't work in multiplayer (jitters horribly).  And 50 boulders is wasteful - I'd only ever need 8.

The solution is to have 8 boulders travelling around the track at the same time.  Each boulder has a different angle of rotation, but only one boulder is ever visible.  I swap the visibility around using env_renders.

It works fine, but it's just not nearly as pretty or efficient as the method I came up with that uses Spirit.

Jinx said:
why is this boulder so important? release it for HLDM without the boulder. it just sounds like a gimmick; this isn't the kind of thing the gameplay of the whole map should revolve around.

Why is the boulder so important?  Because, dammit, it's my map and it matters to me.  End of discussion on that point.

Besides, as I keep saying, even without the boulder this map cannot be released for HLDM.  It is the shootable doors that prevent me from doing that.  If it wasn't for the doors, I would release it for HLDM.  And the doors most definitely are integral to the gameplay.

Jinx said:
why is this boulder so important? release it for HLDM without the boulder. it just sounds like a gimmick; this isn't the kind of thing the gameplay of the whole map should revolve around.

gasps

jinx.. if somehow you have been here this long without knowing the history and sweat involved with this map....

in most cases i might agree with you, but as a mapper, this is tantamount to the most heartless thing i have read coming from your camp..

it is obvious you have never even loaded this map, the interaction between player and map is on a level far exceeding anything i have ever seen released commercially..

IMO, it takes HLDM to a level never seen before..

you should have considered whom you were commenting to before you hit submit.. gollum would hardly dedicate almost 5 years? for a concept unworthy... the fact that he may not achieve it is secondary, the fact that he tackled the job in the first place is..... well its awe inspiring..

as i said, you should have considered the sting in your words

Thanks Orph, I appreciate your kind words :smile:

Different people map for different reasons.  I map because I enjoy creating something novel and exciting.  I take great satisfaction in seeing a long-term vision realised.

I will achieve the goals of this map project; the boulder works even in HLDM.  It's just a matter of how well it works.  After all this time, I want the best effect I can make.

Gollum said:
Looks like Fraggard was right - the multiplayer in Spirit of HL is awful.

Seems that I'm going to have to fix Spirit's multiplayer (or wait for someone else to do it), if I want my nice spinkee boulder

The alternative is a much uglier boulder; the current one is my pride and joy, and I don't want to lose it.  Once more unto the breach, dear friends....

Sorry to be the Bearer m8 :sad:

Maybe you could contact Laurie and ask him for some optimization help? It might be useful to see if you can salvage some stuff before you shift over to HLDM.

Just a thought. Since SoHL lags in all non-bouldery maps, the boulder might not be the reason. I think you could ask him to point you in the right direction.

Gollum said:
Thanks Orph, I appreciate your kind words :smile:

i would do the same for anyone.. i am sure jinx knows that..

sometimes, the most difficult thing around here is to intervene between people you like alot :sad:

i, have never been one to avoid it, but it is truly difficult not to play into a partiality mindset..

your very welcome, it was a sincere reply on my part.

You have accomplished so much so far Gollum and I'm sure you will find a way to get it working the way you want it to  :smile:

Positive it will work soon Gollum, this is just the God of Half-Lifes way of testing you!

He tests the masses with Steam. HAHA!

fraggard said:
Sorry to be the Bearer m8 :sad:

Maybe you could contact Laurie and ask him for some optimization help? It might be useful to see if you can salvage some stuff before you shift over to HLDM.

Just a thought. Since SoHL lags in all non-bouldery maps, the boulder might not be the reason. I think you could ask him to point you in the right direction.

I'm indebted to you for alerting me :smile:   Knowledge is generally better than blissful ignorance.

The problem is nothing to do with my boulder, and everything to do with Spirit.  I've got a thread running on the Spirit forums that I hope may prompt some kind of solution.  The Spirit peeps have known about this for ages but they haven't got around to fixing it, partly because they don't seem to have a home network available for testing.

If I can get some technical assistance from the Spirit gurus, I may be able to debug it myself.  I have to be patient again for a bit; meanwhile I shall continue my other work on Gmdm2 :smile:

if Laurie's e-mail is still listed somewhere in the darktruths forums il try and give him a shout for you.

What kind of guy is named Laurie?

Cash Car Star said:
What kind of guy is named Laurie?

 + I just noticed that his mail is listed on the spirit site anyway :/ laurie@valve-erc.com

I think Laurie is unlikely to want to do anything about this multiplayer issue.  ICR, someone who seems to do Spirit coding, may be able to help however.  He's writing/fixing some debugging code at the moment, which I intend to use to look for the source of the lag.

i truly wish i could see the latest rendition with the soon-too-be-not-so-aggrivating boulder in action....not that i could really help yet, but i do so love a good challenge...what do ya think there gollum? any ideas? :smile:

Dr Brasso... :dodgy:

I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Clearly it's my recent grouchiness coming out :sad:

I did play a beta of this a long long time ago, I think, and it was pretty cool. It just seems like releasing a HLDM version, even a stripped down one, might have been nice at some point. I love my maps, too, but I want other people to be able to enjoy them. That means that, at some point, you have to release them!  Just consider it my (poor) attempt at constructive criticism. :smile:

Hey don't stress over it Jinx, it doesn't bother me.  I'm quite used to people prodding me to finish the map, and release it for HLDM.  They wouldn't bother if they didn't like the map :smile:

You're absolutely right that I need to release this map, as otherwise no-one will ever see it.  If I make a version for HLDM it will be after I've finished the "full version".

The main trouble with porting it to HLDM is that, with the doors removed, the connectivity will suck :sad:   I might see if there's an easy way to fix that, but this is very much a secondary objective for me.

EDIT I may have been mistaken about Laurie; it seems he wants to test Spirit multiplayer after all.  What's amusing/surprising is that he remembers the rolling boulder from so long ago...EDIT

there ya go mike, just the simple fact that he remembered the boulder from way back when, well, that should prolly tell you that yer concept made a serious impression.....therefore making mr jinx's comments um....mute.... :heee:

Dr Brasso... :dodgy:

ill tell ya what, ya gotta respect yer tenacity, if nothing else....and i mean that in the kindest possible way.... :wink:

Dr Brasso said:
ill tell ya what, ya gotta respect yer tenacity, if nothing else....and i mean that in the kindest possible way.... :wink:

the same could be said of a newly arrived tick when looking at the bloated oldtimer .. and i mean this in the best possible way, :heee:

seriously tho.. you gotta respect someone who passed on other opertunities to make simpler maps for release, in favor of one all time champion..

Well, I just figure that once I've made my bed, I'd better damn well lay in it :heee:

Update: I've found a copy of the Spirit source that appears to work fine in multiplayer :biggrin:

It will need testing to confirm this, but for now I shall port my code changes over and use this as the base for my mod.

pm me with it once uve got it sorted m8, il get a few m8s to test it.

Me too mate, I've a 5 person LAN and some more than willing flatmates, so if you want it to go through some good gameplay grilling you know where to look.

/me thinks I ought to put this to use for reviewing HL2 maps...

Good good :smile:   I will take you both up on that offer.

After all this time, I hope it plays well