ns_apollyon

Work on this map has been progressing well and I am pleased with how it's turning out so far. There's still plenty to sort out though, and I'd love any aid in that endeavour. Note that these screens can actually be seen!

Here's five screenshots:











Here's a link to a beta:
http://www.snarkpit.com/pits/yak_fighter/ns_apollyon_beta7_test.zip

This map is unplayable in its current form and all you can do is walk around it. This isn't the real layout either, since I just mashed all the rooms I have worked on together. The ingame lighting will be brighter from the gamma correction. Also some areas are pitch black because I somehow forgot to light some rooms, so you'll need to bring along your flashlight.

Any comments, suggestions, or derogatory statements are welcome.

Nice to see a NS map that isn't obsessed with small steps which climb to a level 2ft higher which is laced with "COOL COMPUTER TEXTURES!"

More comments later, but the pure industrial feel is nice and different..

I have no idea what gwil is talking about personaly. I make my small steps DOWNWARDS with walls laced with computers.

Ferret :razz: I'm sure I can overlook in that case, and as long as you have some grasp of design/gameflow.. so yes then :wink:

All the shots seem a little too grey in hindsight Yak, perhaps you could a)have electronic signs/goodies/locks/maps of the area on the walls. Also, you might want to vary the wall structure a bit more, feels a bit boxy - although if you use lighting a little more dynamically that'll help achieve it.

Try and spotlight the overhanging beams/girders, and implementing recessed fan units or somesuch into the wall ?

I'm sure I can overlook in that case, and as long as you have some grasp of design/gameflow.. so yes then

Ouch. Are my steps to computer terminals really THAT bad? :X

Darn picky NS designers :razz:

I can't download it ATM, but I will definitely run around it in the weekend. Till then, a few screenshot critiques

Pic1:
-I like the general feel in this shot. But the floor seems very plain. Grates/different textures maybe.
-Green Lights IMO don't match the walls.
-An upper brush border on those triangular walls. Right now, they look like they've been chopped off and painted.

Pic2:
-Nothing much to say. It doesn't seem to be too crucial an area.

Pic3:
-/me likes the floor lights.
-The other lights look like they aren't really hitting the floor. Maybe more contrast or light variation. Maybe spot lights on those green ones

Pic4:
-The colour variation is nice, but those green lights and the actual red-colour clash. Maybe add reddish lights?
-The feel of this part is really nice. It needs Teh Infestation!!1one
-Maybe scale down that floor grate texture a bit?

Pic5:
-That low-res rocket texture stands out painfully.
-Those green lights again. I think it really looks cartoony with that black border.
-Finally. Teh Infestation!!1one.

this influx of such high quality and/or interesting maps is almost enough to have me re-install HL1

you guys, why did you pick now to get so f**king good :smile:

actually, i am more proud than you can possibly imagine, some of you i have known a very long time (in internet terms) the transition from then to now, is astronomical..

i may not have been a factor in andrew success story, but i was there to witness it, and thats more than enuff for me..

you all do this ol' man proud..

these shots are great yakman.

/me digs around for old HL disc's

i might just do it.

Thanks for the suggestions! I'll see what I can do.

Fraggard, those lights are yellow. :razz: I'll have to redo that texture and make it more yellow then. And pic2 is a hive area, if it looks so plain perhaps I should change it around.

The map is too boxy, so that will have to be fixed as well. Looking back on some of the newer stuff it's all flat walls with supports. Plus there's almost no height elevation on the ground. I guess it's time for more revisions.

Here's an update. Just so you know, all of these pictures have sub 500 r_speeds:

This is an updated shot of a hallway.



This is the geothermal plant hive. I've still got some details and lighting to add, as it really doesn't look like anything.



Here's another hallway that leads to the geothermal plant hive.



This is the Alamo. I've got some revisions to do here and some lighting to adjust, but it's coming along.

Ferret said:
I have no idea what gwil is talking about personaly. I make my small steps DOWNWARDS with walls laced with computers.

Always a solid choice.

Yak: Pic 3 and the lower half of pic 2 are teh seques; the supports in pictures 1 and 3 really destroy the whole image. Too square.

Lighting doesn't seem to be as high-contrast as most other NS maps; I would suggest using some light_spots for better control, or even bumping "-dscale" on RAD up to 3 or 4.

The thing that really bothers me is those neon-greenish light textures; the light they emit really isn't representative of them being full-bright. Like in ns_apollyon1_2.JPG, it kind of just seems that the lights are ON, but not really shining on anything.

I like that hive though, even though it's unfocused. Try to maintain some of the spookiness when you revise it. :smile:

Very nice Yak. I agree with junkie, the lighting could use more contrast, that first hallway looks great, but the lighting is a little bland.

Hmm, firefox makes these input boxes a bit crappy...anyways...

I really like the new shots yak, big improvements in my opinion. I'm
loving the first and third shots in particular, very nice brushwork and
texturing in there, but as CJ suggested, the lighting could use some
more contrast to put that final touch on it.

I cant do anything but agree what they have said. Already mentioned all the points I was going to go through. Im going to have to say the hallway shots are my favorite. The architecture in the first pic is quite nice, but I'm guessing what would really make these hallways come to life is variance in lighting, currently its all just 1 color.

Whats really cool about NS maps is that you can use the same texture numerous times, with out noticing that its that texture. And now im sure asking yourself "How is this possible?" Lighting. Lighting can make a texture look completely different and unique from the rest of your map. I am sure you have noticed this with transfermation from Hammer to HL... looks completely different. Good luck to you Yak and I hope to see more pics.

Your hallways and rooms look to be a lot of boxes (granted, with varying heights and sloping walls) that employ lots of visible structure pillars embedded in them, you see? What exactly is this map supposed to be - maybe you could get away with some curving "cavelike" tunnels in place of those boxy hallways. And maybe some grates with stuff behind them (pipes, etc) could spruce up a couple areas. Or locked doors, or damaged areas (with debris lying around) can make some difference too.

Maybe you should "infest" some more areas with more of that green s**t around. I think the mapping guidelines say to make more of a smooth transition between human spawns and the hives, so maybe a few traces of alien goo around the walls and floors that slowly become predominant.

Personally I see nothing to fault in those corridors (you are talking
about the new shots in the thread, not the ones attached to the map
profile?), other than perhaps the lighting. In fact as far as corridors
go, I'd say they look pretty uber :smile:

Here's a small update. I'm still working on the lighting in the old areas. I also redid the so-called green light textures to be nice and yellow. They can be seen in the second pic near the top.

This is the redesigned Alamo.



This is the siege room for the Geothermal Plant hive.



I have also come to realize that I hate lighting. I've been trying different things in some areas with the lighting and nothing looks right. Bah, I just want some high contrast lighting!

Those last two look fantastic Yak. In the first pic the lighting on the floor is a bit flat, but really no big deal.

I think what you are really in need of is more light_spots. I don't really see any evidence of them. I think some good spots may deliver the contrast which is currently somewhat lacking.

I haven't used any light_spots. In fact, I've never used light_spots in the five years I've mapped... it should be obvious that I usually leave lighting as the last step and that I've only gotten that far on two maps.

With these sorts or improvements each time you post new pics I can't
wait to see the next batch! Looking really good, but as Tracer said,
get using some light_spots; those things are a godsend for sci-fi maps
in particular.

Pic two looks fantastic for the reasons that number one looks good, but so-so - in the second picture your lighting is focused, dramatic, and atmospheric; the first picture looks more awkward and makes the architecture seem more bland rather than accentuating it.

I think whats happening is the light is just bleeding in the 1st pic... You need to tone down the light values for the blue lights, put some really small light sprites on them aswell to spinkify them.

After looking like a fool in the r_speeds thread I decided to reread the mapping guide for NS. I found some interesting things that I managed to gloss over before...

Anyways, I figured that my lighting sucks, so I am in the process of redoing all of it. I am also considering redoing much of the map as it is quickly becoming a tiny, hall-infested, flat piece of crap.

Oh, and here's a pic: (I know it looks a little dark, but with the gamma ramp it looks better)

Looking good.. I deff like it.. But Iw ould like to see more.. rooms. I want to see height variation through out one room.. Not just hallway ramps but rooms that elevated platforms.. or the cieling shoots up and gives more space.

Thats what i would like to see... less hallways

I couldn't agree more, which is why I'm contemplating changing things around. My next update will show two bigger rooms.

I like it, but I think maybe you should play with the falloff on those red accents. try inverse square and it should make them spill out nicely.

Cassius said:
Pic two looks fantastic for the reasons that number one looks good, but so-so - in the second picture your lighting is focused, dramatic, and atmospheric; the first picture looks more awkward and makes the architecture seem more bland rather than accentuating it.

what he said. me like the second one. looks like we got some mapping goodness here people

blu_chze said:

Cassius said:
Pic two looks fantastic for the reasons that number one looks good, but so-so - in the second picture your lighting is focused, dramatic, and atmospheric; the first picture looks more awkward and makes the architecture seem more bland rather than accentuating it.

what he said. me like the second one. looks like we got some mapping goodness here people

lets not get too ahead of ourselves :razz:

Yak_Fighter said:
[size=13][color=white][quote=blu_chze]

Cassius said:
Pic two looks fantastic for the reasons that number one looks good, but so-so - in the second picture your lighting is focused, dramatic, and atmospheric; the first picture looks more awkward and makes the architecture seem more bland rather than accentuating it.[/color][/size]

what he said. me like the second one. looks like we got some mapping goodness here people

lets not get too ahead of ourselves :razz:

[/quote]

Well hes better then me and that usually means a goodness- arrogance aside. We?ll soon see if it?s a good map, in the mean time

For me it looks to dark..

But from what I see it looks kinda basic, I see nothing new stuff that I haven't seen in any other NS maps.

Try to make something new, really breathtaking (yes, I know its HL ;P)

:sad:

Sorry, but after seeing HL2 your water just looks like s**t.

look at it this way, once (if) HL2 comes out, he'll be able to port the map over :smile:

Lep, don't make me hurt you. And why would I port an NS map over to HL2? :razz:

Eeeew, that is a nasty water texture. Obviously you are going for some sort of oily effect but....eeeeeeew :razz: Looks good otherwise though.

You definately need something muddier for that water, so it blends into the textures. It stands out too much.

Lep, don't make me hurt you. And why would I port an NS map over to HL2? :razz:

Once NS is ported, of course :rolleyes:

I think the problem is less the water texture itsef and more the fact that it looks bright. Perhaps additive rendermode would look nicer.

Geothermal Plant Room = Bloody marvelous.



I love those textures =D



Yippie Ki Yay!

That one picture not too far up with the hall and the light_spots...are there any sources for those? They seem to just come from nowhere.

Yeah, the lights are inset in the horizontal support. I didn't apply the textures at the time because I wanted to see how the light_spots were by themselves. Course this really doesn't matter since every single room depicted in this thread until the last one has been deleted because they sucked. In fact I should just delete this piece of crap map anyways since I'll never finish it.

That'd be a shame, it'd be better to release the source for it to anyone who cares rather than delete it if anything.

Oops, perhaps I should clarify. By delete I mean that the current version of ns_apollyon doesnt have any of those rooms as they've been removed. I still have them all in older betas. I just throw them on the pile with all the other husks of failed maps sitting on three different computers and spanning 5 years.

Sweet ceiling architecture - your specialty :smile:

yak, you are one of the greatest unaccomplished mappers i have ever met..

would be nice if you finished a larger percentage of your creations.. :/

i think, the only person i know, and can confirm who has fewer releases vs. started maps is dave :biggrin:

First screenshot looks amazing.

/me drools over #3

3rd one looks pretty good. In the first one, on the corner bevel thingy on the wall at the top, you should 'continue' the beam texture and link them, if you get what I mean. Also with the ceiling, use some masked grating perhaps instead of just a flat boring pipe texture.