Mapping Contest

I'm with the flat-shading with a size restriction too :smile:

I've uninstalled VHE, but if we had a serious mapping contest, then I'de re-install it and have a go.

each camp is deliberately alienating the other side.

restrict the normal things for christ sakes guys.

1) small map. 2-4 players
2) either a) original HL wads or b) limited color wads, the authors choice but both valid.
3) limited r_speeds, 1000/5000 respectively, afterall the 2-4 players need to be able to play.
4) theme- is the only thing really up for debate IMO..

this thing is already 10 or 11 pages long, this thread prolly already has a bigger file size than the maps will have cause you all are arguing needlessly.

contests are supposed to be fun, why complicate that. :sad:

how about everyone has to build a map that contains a set list of things found in almost every mod. something like;

1. a waterfall

2. an elevator

3. some cliffs

4. a bridge

5. some crates

etc, etc.

it wouldnt matter if it was flat shaded or uber textured, the contest would be to best implement the list of objectives in whatever theme/setting you like.

I can't imagine flatshaded maps doing well against textured maps, and while you might say "ahha! so you mean to say textured is better!", I would retort with "obviously".

You see, making flat shaded maps isn't about making the best looking thing possible - as using flashy textures on the same thing will probably yeild a more impressive result. The point of it is to force you to think differently. It makes you use geometry and lighting alone to create an interesting map, not these high res NS, DoD or custom textures.

And cassius, just because it cuts out your area of expertise does not make it "retarded". It would make for an interesting contest. If this contest is just "make a map", there is nigh on no real draw for me, and I think a lot of the experienced folks feel the same. I'm not saying its flatshaded or nothing, but it, or the limited texture set idea (say 10 textures or something), both provide a chance to do something different. I'm entirely open to other suggestions, if you won't do this cass, what would you like?

Seeing reno's sexeh pictures makes me want flat shaded too ;D

I don't like the flat shaded idea, but it might be good to have a very limited texture set, and letting people use flat colours if they like.

Say it was limited textures, would it be allowable for people to make a 256*256 texture that was made up of a bunch of smaller textures, then use these smaller textures in the map by applying the big texture to a small block and aligning it?

i just had a stupid idea.. glares in direction of groans

each participant, submits a texture or two in a wad, with the combined total to be used by all..

sighs

told ya it was stupid.

Doesn't sound very good to me mate :sad: I think limited textures would be good, that way the non-flatshaders could at least use the somewhat detailed textures they demand (though it would be wise to keep them generic!), and people who want to try something a bit more extreme can do flatshaded if they wish.

ReNo said:
Doesn't sound very good to me mate :sad: I think limited textures would be good, that way the non-flatshaders could at least use the somewhat detailed textures they demand (though it would be wise to keep them generic!), and people who want to try something a bit more extreme can do flatshaded if they wish.

That suits me, I would like to try flatshadding soo.. Yea I like.

Any of you who have seen the Quake 3 geometry competition entries (flat-shaded, basically) know how impressive such work can be.

KungFuSquirrel said:
Any of you who have seen the Quake 3 geometry competition entries (flat-shaded, basically) know how impressive such work can be.

Thats what Im talking about, alot of us here have come dependant on textures to make our architecture pretty..

Actually, that competition allowed just 5 textures in the map rather than just 'flatshading,' but many of the entries took that route to allow maximum flexibility.

Competition or not, I think anyone who's interested should have a go at flat-shading/limited use of textures anyway, and we could possibly release a map-pack of the cream of the crop :smile:

I'd be interested in sorting this if anyone is interested :smile:

Reno's pictures make me wanna go "wooh-ooh" :smile:

I'd stick to this (but wonder ... if we all keep proposing things and no one makes the decision ... )

2-4 players, only flat-shaded textures (maybe release an official wad or something) and no theme limitations.

I'd like a stupidly high polycount with the emphasis being on architecture and lighting rather than gameplay or a flatshaded one.

Mr.Ben said:
I'd like a stupidly high polycount with the emphasis being on architecture and lighting rather than gameplay or a flatshaded one.

problem is, it caters to the ridiculously stupid n00b mappers.

anyone can crate high poly maps.. my old maps folder was full of the damned things, but true art is being able to create beauty, far beneath the normal levels.

you might get some support for this idea, from certain quarters, but, i for one wouldn't join, if it were the chosen motif :sad:

The competent will make use of every poly just as efficiently in higher polycounts as in lower polycounts, meaning you'll see just as striking a difference in quality as you would within regular polycounts.

It's always "anyone can make high-poly work," but everyone who ever tosses out this phrase neglects to note that it takes equal or better talent to make good high-poly work. Careless design is careless design at any level. Competent design is, likewise, competent design at any level.

I have no idea why I'm here, though, since there's no way I'll be able to enter any competition even if I wanted to. Meh. Maybe a quick flat-shaded or low texture count map, but meh. Damned preparation for 'real life.' :razz:

you're here andrew, because we need you still.

i concur with your comment for the most part, but would like to add, sometimes the authors skill level alone will sway me.. i am much more impressed with a relatively unproven mapper doing well, than i would be with someone who's skill is already in the great to godly categorie..

sometimes, the lesser map wins IMO.

KFS- tell the woman that if she wants to marry you, first she must win the competition and prove her love to you, like people used to do in days of yore!

edit if we have a competition.. beats plebs away with a rudder

Leperous said:
KFS- tell the woman that if she wants to marry you, first she must win the competition and prove herself to you! Like days of yore!

actually, i read it as job related.

jeff meyer, my mentor, had to quit mapping for any games when he went to work for either AT&T or IBM, i forget which, but the important thing was, they forced him to stop.. he had to sign some sort of a contract baring such activities.. was sad really, him and scary 1 were neck and neck back then :sad:

I had to sign a similar thing when I was working at Bits, though their contract stated that I couldn't work on anything that would be seen as competition for anything I did for them.

Truth it though that when you've been mapping all day at work, there's little motivation to carry on when you get home :/

Bah, stop being a spoil sport lep, you know you want one :razz: To be honest, you don't need to do much to host a contest, basically just make a page saying the rules, and all us have to do the hard part - making the maps! Once its over, we could have panel of reviewers get together for some testing if possible (dunno how we could get a server, but I'm sure we could get it sorted somehow) and afterwards meet in IRC and discuss each map in turn and decide the winner/(s). We could then post each map's discussion in a seperate forum thread for everyone else to add to, etc...

Not to drag the thread off-topic, but it's a combination of both. The work bit is a simple non-compete clause specifying that I do no more work outside of Raven, though it seems from talking to people there it's more an Activision policy than Raven policy (Raven is owned by Activision). Certain exceptions are made in some cases (some of their artists do things such as comic books or magic cards in their spare time), and things 'outside your discipline' are generally allowed - some Raven employees are published writers in their spare time. There may be some 'outside my discipline' exceptions I can manage (I'm looking into expanding into character modeling and animation in my spare time), but regardless anything I do outside of my work at my desk in the office will be unreleased and not shown anywhere.

To clarify, my comment was just in regard to this thread, not the snark pit in general. :wink:

Edit- Adam: I made about 3 re-builds of Eclipse and took the main steps in getting Nightwatch off the ground while working full-time. :wink:

Speaking of which...what's going to happen to Nightwatch now?

i take it i was fairly close to the mark then.. nice to know i haven't lost my touch at between the lines reading :smile:

you could always pull a ghost writer type of thing andrew.. pick some nobody, like wildcard, and let him promote your maps as his own :biggrin:

sorry nick, but YOU deserved that after the last stunt you pulled

Thats all good until Raven start noticing this nobody and hire them, and then Andrew has to turn up to work twice every day :smile:

ReNo said:
Thats all good until Raven start noticing this nobody and hire them, and then Andrew has to turn up to work twice every day :smile:

you are just too funny duncan

Pffft, thats yesterday's news my friend :razz:

Anyway, back on topic...this flat shading stuff eh...



Getting the hang of using it for a cartoony style pretty well now, its a pretty versatile technique. Gone a bit overboard on the fake highlights / shadows on the walls though, bit of a big difference in places!

The two CJ's were both gonna knock up some example stuff to try and win folk over, but since they haven't posted anything yet I guess I gotta keep trying :biggrin:

duncan, where are these textures, i just had an idea i wanna try.. mind sharing those?

Sure I'll upload it and post the link in here - its just a collection of various shades of different colours.

EDIT: Here we go :smile:

http://www.snarkpit.com/pits/reno/files/flatshaded.zip

I've used an fs_ prefix so you can get to see the whole collection by entering it as a filter.

ReNo said:
Sure I'll upload it and post the link in here - its just a collection of various shades of different colours.

please do so.. i think i could be motivated slightly to make a "thing" map :smile:

Few more to sway the vote...though these are from an older map which I wouldn't use as my entry due to the massive head start i'd have :smile:

ReNo said:
Sure I'll upload it and post the link in here - its just a collection of various shades of different colours.

EDIT: Here we go :smile:

http://www.snarkpit.com/pits/reno/files/flatshaded.zip

I've used an fs_ prefix so you can get to see the whole collection by entering it as a filter.

thanx duncan.. sure is a tiny thing :smile:

Man yours is uber stylish, I LOVE the look of that map :smile: I'd never have thought to use three colours, but it works absolutely brilliantly. Two is a bit too difficult to work I think, but the third just gives it that marvellous little bit more definition. Breathtaking!

I guess it's not flat-shaded as such since all the textures emit light and don't receive any shadows :/ Was more of an experiment to see what could be done with as few colours as possible.

I'm liking yours too ReNo, especially the use of variations of the same colour to add the impression of shadows etc. I was playing around with the same technique last night but was nowhere near as successful :smile:

Awesome work, Adam :smile: Did you run RAD? This is one rare case where running RAD might not be useful, EXCEPT for the huge and inexplicable framerate gain it always gives....

Yeah, I ran RAD - mainly to keep the fps in check (not sure why fps are better with RAD ) and because it gives a slight 'glowy' feeling to everything.

I'm hoping that doesn't happen to me, running it on my map makes it look absolutely bollocks. Framerates seem fine at the moment but there isn't much to render. Perhaps the low res textures hugely scaled will mean it runs well even if r_speeds rise to pretty high numbers :smile:

Ok...this flat-shaded thing is very enticing. If this becomes the topic of our contest...I might just have to find the time to squeeze a small one out. I would really dig giving that a shot.

Oh God. I thought the limited textures idea was a pain, but this flat-shading thing looks to be an even larger problem.

Give in Frag, check out the number of new padawan's the flat shaded school of thought is pulling in - surely you can also recognise that if it was a s**t idea, there wouldn't be so many established mappers of the opinion that it makes for a good contest theme?

It'll certainly help in choosing textures, something I tend to have a hard time with :biggrin:

Sway to the dark side, Reno, I see you have... :sad:

Nice come back myrk :razz:



I can tell you're breaking :wink:

I fail to see what is so bad about this sort of thing.

Levels have 3 primary visual components. Architecture, textures, and lighting. Architecture, though, is unique in the sense that only it can stand alone from the other two. What is being proposed here is a chance to really go all-out in the architectural design of a level and really explore the abstract side of your construction. The worst that can possibly happen is nothing at all, the best case scenario could have you discovering new ways of doing things you might never have thought of before.

The worst that can possibly happen is that someone could die of a Tron-related-overdose when looking at these things.

I want reno to have my babies

No offence but Reno I think that map is the most ugly piece of crap you've ever created :razz: Your other stuff is far superior in architecture and texturing!

Plus whats the gameplay like? By the looks of it you just walk around on water around these 2 towers.... :rolleyes:

Well each to their own I guess mate, its one of my favourites actually :biggrin: Yeah so gameplay sucks just now, but its not finished. I plan to have a room inside the volcano and a couple more little outcrops, as well as access around the back of the volcano. Could be fun to gauss jump out a volcano and land on a huge tower...couldnt it? :smile:

Also, I think that saying its "inferior" to my other work is unfair, as its an entirely different style. I'm trying to create a map that would fit in something like Zelda: The Wind Waker, and I'm really happy with how I'm doing at it.