New Orleans

http://www.comcast.net/news/index.jsp?cat=GENERAL&fn=/2005/09/01/212898.html

Ouch, didn't realise the situation was so bad down there. Kind of an eye opener...

You have to relize (god I can't spell) that a good portion of the people still in the city chose to stay there agaist mandatory evacuations, makes me think they were planning to loot and stuff, or they're just plain stupid.
/rant

Other than that this was a pretty bad hurricane. I experienced a tropical storm once and it was bad, this was a F-5, that's 160 mph winds, I can't even imagine how bad it must have been to be in the path of that storm.

Regardless, I still found it a little unnerving when they described the
bodies floating around, and the panic that people felt... I dunno.

To an extent, it's true that some people left behind have only themselves to blame. But let's not reduce it to that.

New Orleans is (was, I suppose... we'll see if it still will be) a bustling tourist destination. Thousands of tourists were in the city, many of whom flew in from out of state or out of the country. When the evacuation was ordered, only a few flights made it out before the airports shut down. Many tourists were stuck in their hotels without any good place to go. Some were able to get rental cars and get out of the city, but nowhere near all. A member of the Spanish parliament is still stuck there.

Universities in the New Orleans area magnified the problem. Parents were bringing their children to school, which would have started this week, only to be stranded in the path of the storm.

Many of the thousands still in New Orleans when the storm hit did not have the means to evacuate at all... whether a result of low income, sickness, dependents, etc. Three elderly patients at a nursing home died just in the process of trying to move to a safe shelter, but couldn't leave town. You can imagine the situation the rest of that nursing home is in now. Patients in hospitals were too fragile to be moved from their locations, and people are lying without food, water, or power, in need of respiration and even dialysis.

The superdome was also made available as a refuge for those without the means to evacuate... tens of thousands (I think the tally was ~30k?) people did take the effort to go there to ride out the storm (making do the best they could); it's only now after the storm hit that the logistics of the situation are crumbling and the panic and despair are setting in.

There's some stupid and downright despicable people (see: those shooting at hospitals) on the loose in New Orleans right now, but don't place the blame on those who are stuck trying to survive as best they can in unfortunate circumstances.

Now the one really sobering thought: this wasn't even the direct hit that everyone feared. A glancing blow was enough to shear the roof covering off the biggest 'safe' structure and tear holes in its roof. A direct hit could have flooded it with thousands inside; I shudder to think what downtown NO would look like had katrina hit dead-on as a category 5.

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www.button-masher.net

Interesting enough: http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,372455,00.html

---

Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Crono</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Interesting enough: http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,372455,00.html[/quote]

</DIV></DIV>
"No One Can Say they Didn't See it Coming"

On this note, what I've never understood is the apparent American preoccupation with building residences from wood. Obviously states in South-East America such as Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, etc are prime hurricane territory, yet from all the images I've seen over the years it looks as though the vast majority of homes in these southern states have wooden outer shells. I actually watched the movie 'A Time To Kill' yesterday which set in Mississippi so paid particular attention to people's homes, and virtually all the residental non-apartment block buildings looked to be constructed entirely from wood (by all means, correct me if this isn't the case.)

Sure, here in the UK most residential buildings have wooden floors throughout, but almost always have an outer shell of two layers of bricks and/or concrete blocks. Obviously the building material used wouldn't have helped with the flooding, but surely the apparent 80% of New Orleans which has been levelled wouldn't have been as bad as if stronger building materials where used?

Same applies to building hillside homes on stilts in California - surely a disaster waiting to happen when a large earthquake eventually occurs?

Muahahahahah!!! Thats Karma for yaz'

would you care to elaborate there, mr warlok??

Doc B

keved said:
On this note, what I've never understood is the apparent American preoccupation with building residences from wood. Obviously states in South-East America such as Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, etc are prime hurricane territory, yet from all the images I've seen over the years it looks as though the vast majority of homes in these southern states have wooden outer shells. I actually watched the movie 'A Time To Kill' yesterday which set in Mississippi so paid particular attention to people's homes, and virtually all the residental non-apartment block buildings looked to be constructed entirely from wood (by all means, correct me if this isn't the case.)
Sure, here in the UK most residential buildings have wooden floors throughout, but almost always have an outer shell of two layers of bricks and/or concrete blocks. Obviously the building material used wouldn't have helped with the flooding, but surely the apparent 80% of New Orleans which has been levelled wouldn't have been as bad as if stronger building materials where used?

Same applies to building hillside homes on stilts in California - surely a disaster waiting to happen when a large earthquake eventually occurs?

In the USA, 95% of all residential buildings are constructed primarily from wood. I expect this has something to do with the fact that we still have forests whereas those in Europe were already logged off by 1300 AD. It's much more expensive to build brick structures when wood is so prevalent.

If you want to talk about a disaster waiting to happen, it was really the fact that most of New Orleans is/was below sea level... In truth, "disaster waiting to happen" describes many American cities. Seattle, and LA are just two examples that spring to mind. We all know theses things can happen, but it simply isn't in human nature to do anything about it until the catastrophe strikes. You Europeans are just lucky that there are no natural threats to speak of on your continent.

---

Some people are like slinkys...

They aren?t really good for anything, but you can't help but laugh when one tumbles down the stairs.

Muahahahahah!!! Thats Karma for yaz'

Your such an asshole, I swear.

It pisses me off that the entire world was bashing America for not
doing enough when the tidal waves hit southern asia, but now that we
need some desperate help no one gives a s**t.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>If you want to talk about a disaster waiting to happen, it was really the fact that most of New Orleans is/was below sea level... In truth, "disaster waiting to happen"</DIV></DIV>

Which the whitehouse was well aware of. A cat5 hurricane hitting new orleans was in a list of top 3 disasters most likely to hit the U.S., according to some alleged report that Bush allegedly commissioned and then allegedly ignored.

well the ignore part is probably true, since the federal funding for SELA (Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control Project) has been slaughtered over the past few years, and areas of previously protected wetland, that offered some protection from surges, have now been sold to developers. gg george.

---

i eat paint

Hey there Dr. Brasso, what's with your avatar... looks familiar...

:biggrin:

It pisses me off that the entire world was bashing America for not
doing enough when the tidal waves hit southern asia, but now that we
need some desperate help no one gives a s**t.

Heh, I've been thinking that too, actually. Now what's happening in New
Orleans is less heavy than what has happened in Asia, but it's shocking
nonetheless and indeed, I haven't heard any other country about sending
help.

I wonder if all help and money that was promised for Asia really came in. I think not...

---

Create-ivity - a game development blog

I've heard thathelp was offered fromother countries, but the U.S.
politely declined. I'm not sure how true that it, but I can see
why...

keved, wood is cheaper and MUCH more adaptable. Say 30 years down the line the owner wants to remodel, that's a little harder to do if you did something like a concrete structure (which is fundamentally better then wood, but it's a one time shot)

Also, most places that have bricks on the outside aren't completley made out of bricks ... that's just crazy, that'd take a very long time to build if they were.

---

Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Spartan said:
It pisses me off that the entire world was bashing America for not doing enough when the tidal waves hit southern asia, but now that we need some desperate help no one gives a s**t.

Interesting, i assumed that if you can build up a middle easter country and send over 10's of thousends of troops, then i would also be able to assume that you can create a proper plan to help the city after the hurrican hit. Afterall they knew it would happend.

my 10cts

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RUST Gamedesign
pepper design

The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Spartan</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Muahahahahah!!! Thats Karma for yaz'</DIV></DIV>

Your such an asshole, I swear.

It pisses me off that the entire world was bashing America for not doing enough when the tidal waves hit southern asia, but now that we need some desperate help no one gives a s**t.

</DIV></DIV>

agreed. on the radio this morning, they were criticizing the government for not having all the sewage and wreckage cleaned up like 3 days after it happened.

Pepper. We're too busy doing all this overseas s**t. We SHOULD have a plan, but your tone is all wrong. "You are all up in another country's grill and now it's your fault that a hurricane hit." that's what it sounds like to me. and YES we need financial help, have you seen the value of the dollar lately?

Anyway, lots of brits were against our "war on terrorism" but then when they got hit, it was a new perspective for them, maybe holland just needs a wake-up call.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

For sure, Nickel. The world has been giving us aid but not that much,
Australia was the most with 7.7 million USD, the rest were like... 200k
USD, at the most. Umm... yeah. The feds just passed $10 billion in
assistance but that was yesterday or something so it couldn't even be
spent (legally) until then... whatever. If I lived in New Orleans and
there was a hurricane coming, and there were calls for evacuations, I'd
be bugging out pretty quick.

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One day you'll know what you're talking about, I can hardly imagine

Maps! - Audio blog!

<div class="quote"><div class="quotetitle">? quoting rs6:</div><div class="quotetext">You have to relize (god I can't spell) that a good portion of
the people still in the city chose to stay there agaist mandatory
evacuations, makes me think they were planning to loot and stuff, or
they're just plain stupid.
/rant

</div></div>

Sorry, but you're wrong.

The majority of the people who are still stranded (and starving and
dying of dehydration and squalid conditions) are the marginalized
poor... most of whom are black and lived in close proximity to the
levees. These people, who were too poor to own a car or even buy
bus fare out when news spread of the coming disaster are essentially
trapped and dying because they couldn't afford to leave.
Stupidity or bad intentions is not the reason most of the people
trapped in New Orleans were there in the first place. They were
poor and the government didn't come up with an evacuation plan despite
the high likelyhood that something like this would happen.

Anyway -- that's the gist of what I read in the New York Times today.

okay well......theyve got the cavalry at the door now, so lets see how they do shall we?.... to be continued.

ps......to this point, im quite dismayed....i think part of the problem has been the sheer shock of it all. like a punch in the forehead with a brick. never dealt with a situation like this whether they saw it comin or not, so there has to be a slight learning curve here......but dont get me wrong, im plenty pissed.

i hate having egg on my face..... :arse:

Doc Brasso...

pss....told ya i was gonna steal it frenchie... :dodgy:

If I lived in New Orleans and
there was a hurricane coming, and there were calls for evacuations, I'd
be bugging out pretty quick.

If I lived in New Orleans and there was a hurricane coming, and
there were calls for evacuations, I'd be bugging out pretty quick.

Hurricanes are common in that neck of the woods, though, aren't they?
Surely hurricane warnings must be just as common. I'm not certain that
I'd up and off on the strength of a weather forecast - however scary -
particularly if I hadn't any transport... or money... or anywhere to
go. I refuse to believe that the greater part of the people who elected
not to move were either dense, lazy or had one eye on the loot, most of
the people we've seen on the news seem to be from the lower end of the
social spectrum or in hospital/prison. Addicted to morphine is right.

And the American government's response?

I'm no expert but common sense suggests that everything that can be
done is being done - and as quickly as possible. Even the most rabid
and cynical Bush-hater shouldn't question that - they will, though.

Warlok, you're a mindless f**kwit.

You can have the regular version of it Brasso. I'm trying to
change mine, but it doesn't seem to work unless I do it 800 times :sad:

k, im just gunna state i did not read the thread entirely. just skimmed.

:start rant:

k, wtf is wrong with people. The city is being evacuated for the most
part and yet people still are running around down there. Now I was
watching the news earlier and they showed people looting and robbing
and taking (however you want to say it) sotres such as walmart. Taking
TVs and DVD players. Stealing things that are completly worthless in
this state of emergency. Where the hell are you gunna plug in a f**king
TV and watch it when the city is filled with 2 feet of water and theres
no cable or power for most places.What movies are you watching while
trying not to die of thirst and food. What is money going to buy you?
Another TV you aren't gunna use at all? I doubt many people are selling
their prescious food there. I bet those people take a TV, walk half way
down the street and think, "im not f**king carrying this crap around
for the next month or so, making sure it wont touch the water that is
filled with dead bodies, animals, feces, pee, blood." then drop the TV
and leave. Now I can understand stealing the following items

-Food

-Water

-Blankets

-Pillow

-Rope

-Cooler

Steal a cooler and make sure it floats. Put your food in it, and your
blanket and pillow. Blankets if you want to ( I would). Then take the
rope and tie it to the handle of the cooler. And then tie it around
your waist. Your set to go, walk around with your cooler right there
next to you. When its time to sleep find like a table or something
thats not under water or wont float away and pull out your pillow and
blanket.

On a side note, (not being racist just stating facts)if you watch the
news, everyone there is black. There is like 4 white people in the
city. Thats because all the white people left or were evacuated. These
poor black people are running around down there stealing everything not
even thinking to just start a long walk out of the city, to a place
that isnt flooded that can give you shelter and food.

: end rant:

---

http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/8521/windows981dk.jpg

Nickelplate is my dad

Windows, you have to realize ... they are already dying of hunger and dehydration ... a lot of people are far away from the flooded areas now ... but there's other problems: other people.

The ingenious idea to hide in a one way entrance death trap before the flood was such a huge mistake. That's like saying, "I know, there's a giant tornado coming: I'm going to stand on my roof."

Sadly, there were actually a lot of people who said they'd "wait it out". The reason why is New Orleans gets hit by hurricanes and storms all the time. They're never that bad.

Also, they had a plan for this specific situation, the Louisiana guard freakin' practice it many times a year. When it actually happened they couldn't do anything because everything happened at once: loss of utilities and power, overflowing sewage, and flood all happened at once.

It's ridiculous, to be honest. There's no reason why there wasn't aid there sooner to get people out that could not do it themselves. Now, the majority of "troops" they're sending in aren't to evacuate people, but to bring "order" to the streets.

On a side note, does anyone else find it strange that the statistically two worst singular events to befall America happened under one president's terms of office?

Just something else: the "lateness" of aid claim is that there was no way for them to get into the city ... yet ... Bret Farv ... a football player ... took a truck ... by himself ... drove down and started bring water and food to people in New Orleans ... Bret Farv ... one guy ... a football player. And yet, HELICOPTERS couldn't get in ... buses couldn't get in .... but Bret Farv's truck could ...

... Bret Farv.

---

Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Just something else: the "lateness" of aid claim is that there
was no way for them to get into the city ... yet ... Bret Farv ... a
football player ... took a truck ... by himself ... drove down and
started bring water and food to people in New Orleans ... Bret Farv ...
one guy ... a football player. And yet, HELICOPTERS couldn't get in ...
buses couldn't get in .... but Bret Farv's truck could ...

... Bret Farv.

I know this subject isn't a laughing matter and its serious but... rofl

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http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/8521/windows981dk.jpg

Nickelplate is my dad

On a side note, does anyone else find it strange that the statistically two worst singular events to befall America happened under one president's terms of office?

...No... Way worse things have happened to America. Lets see, San Francisco Earthquake and Fire, Great Chicago Fire, Boston Fire, Great Seattle Fire, Great Baltimore Fire, Texas city disaster... And thats only fires... Throw in some more floods, earthquakes, a Great Depression here, a couple World Wars there, and you have yourself a veritable bonanza of catastrophe and disaster.

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http://maze5.net

Crono is so anti_governement :razz: our little punk

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http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/8521/windows981dk.jpg

Nickelplate is my dad

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Spartan</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Muahahahahah!!! Thats Karma for yaz'</DIV></DIV>

Your such an asshole, I swear.

It pisses me off that the entire world was bashing America for not doing enough when the tidal waves hit southern asia, but now that we need some desperate help no one gives a s**t.

</DIV></DIV>

agreed. on the radio this morning, they were criticizing the government for not having all the sewage and wreckage cleaned up like 3 days after it happened.

Pepper. We're too busy doing all this overseas s**t. We SHOULD have a plan, but your tone is all wrong. "You are all up in another country's grill and now it's your fault that a hurricane hit." that's what it sounds like to me. and YES we need financial help, have you seen the value of the dollar lately?

Anyway, lots of brits were against our "war on terrorism" but then when they got hit, it was a new perspective for them, maybe holland just needs a wake-up call.[/quote]

You're kidding with this last part, right? When we got hit all through the 20th century with Northern Ireland related terrorism we had perspective. Going into Iraq on false pretences has only served to exacerbate tensions between Muslims and other citizens of the UK - and has no doubt played a huge role in fundamentalist imams recruitment campaigns across the cities of the UK.

Also i'd like to point out about the lack of aid recieved from other countries - President Bush from the outset made allusions to the idea that the USA didn't want help, just sympathy. How stupid is that?

Perhaps if the national government had better policies toward oil pricing, international relations and government spending, New Orleans could have been better prepared for a circumstance like this. Spending on levees and other water management programs has steadily declined down to a meagre $10m, as funds are diverted away to other more "important" programs - eg the pursuit of democracy in the Middle East, weapons development and the vastly overinflated and the essentially useless Homeland Security department.

The issue is not of how fast the state can get New Orleans and other affected areas back on their feet, it's asking why there was no forethought for this situation happening, particularly developing strategies for evacuation and rehoming of displaced peoples.

The development of lawlessness and desperation is a huge pointer too, for how the social fabric of the USA (and a handful of other heavily Westernised countries, see Parisian fires) is essentially flawed and only takes a knock to unwind and develop into anarchy. I noted with interest on another forum that someone highlighted two pictures of looters - one was of black people (over 65% of the populous of New Orleans, btw) who were labelled as looting (TV's etc). Another picture showed some white people taking food and groceries, ie looting - no? They were "lucky enough to find food". Paraphrased, but the point remains.

</DIV></DIV>

F**ked it up - all mine is below the green writing... :razz:

Maze, that's why I used words like, "statistically" and "singular" ... and "befall". (The world trade center had the highest body count from one attack on US soil, on top of that they were mostly civilians.)

I don't consider ... let's say ... world war two a singular event.

I'm not anti-government, not at all. You think I want to manage my states land? F*ck that!

It's terrible what has happened, overall, under this administration. The only thing that's worse is that people blindly follow it. I mean ... I wish that obviously bad leadership and a basic moron would be enough to sway opinions ... but apparently not.

Not to mention that Douche is comparing the Iraq war to WW2 and "liberating" Japan. Dammit, what a f**king douche!

The only thing worse, to be honest, is the set up of the house, senate, and blah blah blah. I found something out, that I don't know is true or not, but apparently, there was some bill passed that made it so a small committee could revise any passed bill as they saw fit. Some senator was talking about it somewhere.

Viva la revolution, but not French ... who lost all their power when the gun was invented! I'm just kidding, I love Jean Reno!

---

Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

I was joking about anti-governement. I should say Anti-Bush. Apparently you don't like him very much.

---

http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/8521/windows981dk.jpg

Nickelplate is my dad

Gwil said:
Going into Iraq on false pretences has only served to exacerbate tensions between Muslims and other citizens of the UK - and has no doubt played a huge role in fundamentalist imams recruitment campaigns across the cities of the UK.

Gwil, do you realise that new guidelines on interpreting the law could see your statement as an attempt to justify terrorist attacks. this seditious villainy could even jeopardize re-entry to your beloved homeland, so you really need to be careful.

[edit] oh wait, you're working to a plan, aren't you....

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i eat paint

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Spartan</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Muahahahahah!!! Thats Karma for yaz'</DIV></DIV>

Your such an asshole, I swear.

It pisses me off that the entire world was bashing America for not doing enough when the tidal waves hit southern asia, but now that we need some desperate help no one gives a s**t.

</DIV></DIV>

agreed. on the radio this morning, they were criticizing the government for not having all the sewage and wreckage cleaned up like 3 days after it happened.

Pepper. We're too busy doing all this overseas s**t. We SHOULD have a plan, but your tone is all wrong. "You are all up in another country's grill and now it's your fault that a hurricane hit." that's what it sounds like to me. and YES we need financial help, have you seen the value of the dollar lately?

Anyway, lots of brits were against our "war on terrorism" but then when they got hit, it was a new perspective for them, maybe holland just needs a wake-up call.

</DIV></DIV>

Sorry if i offended you, wasnt meant to be like that.

Its not that im pointing a finger at anyone or bashing america, i m just saying that iam surprised that there isnt some plan. And no, its not your fault that the hurricane hit, im just lucky enough to live in a country that doesnt have any hurricanes nearby. And i really feel sorry for all the people locked up in the city.
Explain the finacial help, america should be able to carry there own economy, they got the resources for it. Obvioulsy you need trade with other country's.

---

RUST Gamedesign
pepper design

The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee.

What movies are you watching while trying not to die of thirst and food.

Water World or Hard Rain :razz:

What I found rarther surprising was that when they were bringing supplys (I think it was) to the stadium some idiots started firing at the helicopters.

I'm glad the hurricane took the path that it did not because of the distruction and flooding that has happened but because if it had stuck to the path they originaly thourght it would take when it was still going over Florida it would have hit my aunts and cousins.

Another thing I heard was that they had there budget for the levies cut 44% to pay for Iraq and if they had the full amount they may have been able to strengthen them. I dont know how true that was as I wasnt realy listening and that just courght my atention for a couple of seconds.

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Tinterweb site
Deviantart

Human knowledge belongs to the world

Well they've completely evacuated the Superdome now, or so it says on
the news. Don't know about the rest of New Orleans though...

WarloK said:
Muahahahahah!!! Thats Karma for yaz'

you know all your anti-americanism and general arrogance wiil come up and bite you in the ass one of these days.

im quite surprised at the looting and s**t that is going on. i would have never thought such anarchy would erupt from a natural disaster.

---

Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
"I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!"

Its terrible such things are still allowd to happend. Offcourse its hard evacuating all those people from the city, though im surprised it took them so long, i would have expected a evacution plan to be working as soon as the flooding started.

Though i heard on the news that pakistan, cuba, and serval other like-wise country's have offered there help. Thats good news, i geuss.

---

RUST Gamedesign
pepper design

The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee.

edit: messed up post

I think the mayor of New Orleans said something along the lines of:
"The first three days was a natural-disaster, the next four days was a
man-made-disaster." This was in regard to the number of people
who died because of lack of response and support from the federal
government. The death toll, while almost impossible to estimate
now because of the huge number of missing people and the possibilty
that many bodies are holed up in houses and hotel rooms, is set at
somewhere between 1,000 and 2,000+

Basically this is a disaster on par with 9/11 and Bush took 2 days to
come back from vacation before doing anything about it, and Candoleeza
Rice bought 7,000 dollars worth of shoes in Manhattan while New Orleans
was flooding.

Also "Although a government exercise last year predicted the course of
the disaster, Mr Bush drastically cut back spending on city defences.
Work on strengthening vital levees needed to keep out flood water
stopped for the first time in 37 years."

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article310186.ece

Other news links:

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050904/D8CDDH7G0.html

http://reuters.myway.com/article/20050904/2005-09-04T005727Z_01_FOR403212_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-REFUGEES-DC.html

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050903/ts_alt_afp/usweatherpolice_050903215815

pepper said:
Sorry if i offended you, wasnt meant to be like that.

Its not that im pointing a finger at anyone or bashing america, i m just saying that iam surprised that there isnt some plan. And no, its not your fault that the hurricane hit, im just lucky enough to live in a country that doesnt have any hurricanes nearby. And i really feel sorry for all the people locked up in the city.

Explain the finacial help, america should be able to carry there own economy, they got the resources for it. Obvioulsy you need trade with other country's.

The financial hep thing is just this. We look like we have lots of money, but the problem is that only large corporations have money. the little regular people buy everything on credit. The only ppl with money here are Oil companies. lol. We trade with other countries, too, America sends out a s**tLOAD of money to other countries. Ppl criticize us for not sending enough immediately to aid the tsunami victims, but when we have flooding of our own, it seems that ppl just say "Oh well they look rich enough."

Plus, other ppl have a schadenfreude for america anyway.
Gwil, I meant ARAB terrorism, BTW.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

i think he has realized that all politicians in national government positions

are worthless peaces of s**t and care only about themselves

i think he has realized that all politicians in national government positions

are worthless peaces of s**t and care only about themselves

And money. Mostly money.

---

Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Spartan said:

Muahahahahah!!! Thats Karma for yaz'

Your such an asshole, I swear.

It pisses me off that the
entire world was bashing America for not doing enough when the tidal
waves hit southern asia, but now that we need some desperate help no
one gives a s**t.

agreed. on the radio this morning, they were criticizing the
government for not having all the sewage and wreckage cleaned up like 3
days after it happened.

Pepper. We're too busy doing all this overseas s**t. We SHOULD have
a plan, but your tone is all wrong. "You are all up in another
country's grill and now it's your fault that a hurricane hit." that's
what it sounds like to me. and YES we need financial help, have you
seen the value of the dollar lately?

Anyway, lots of brits were against our "war on terrorism" but then
when they got hit, it was a new perspective for them, maybe holland
just needs a wake-up call.

It was most likely caused by the invasion itself. people over here
didnt react to it the same way that the americans did. I really dont
know anyone that has ever supported the "war on terrorism"

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My Pit

I don't know anyone who wholeheartedly supported it either, Kornflakes.

BTW, "schadenfreude" is a psychology term that means that you are subconsciously happy when something bad happens to a certain group of ppl because of any number of reasons, but usually you resent the fact that they have it better than you. Like a poor black guy saying "He deserved it" when he reads about some rich white guy who went bankrupt.

T.W.A.T. - The War Against Terror

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Crono</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>keved, wood is cheaper and MUCH more adaptable. Say 30 years down the line the owner wants to remodel, that's a little harder to do if you did something like a concrete structure (which is fundamentally better then wood, but it's a one time shot)

Also, most places that have bricks on the outside aren't completley made out of bricks ... that's just crazy, that'd take a very long time to build if they were.</DIV></DIV>

Brick/concrete buildings may well cost more in terms of time and money to build, but in prime hurricane territory, when a category 5 hurricane was eventually going to come along, surely it's worth the extra outlay? I'm sure New Orleans residents would rather their homes be still standing than have had the opportunity to more easily remodel their homes. I as understand it many whose wooden homes have been totally destroyed were poor and didn't have sufficient insurance so can't even put in a claim. :sad:

It'll be interesting to see how New Orleans is eventually rebuilt anyway. IMO they absolutely shouldn't be using wood again as the primary building material, same applies to other new buildings in other South-Eastern States too.

How are poor people supposed to pay for a more expensive building material?

On top of that, how are you suppose to sway developers who build what they please using whatever materials they see fit (the cheapest)?

I don't think you're getting the whole picture. It should be obvious at this point that the "best" alternative is almost never used in this society.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Crono said:
How are poor people supposed to pay for a more expensive building material?

On top of that, how are you suppose to sway developers who build what they please using whatever materials they see fit (the cheapest)?

Yep I may well not have the whole picture - obviously there will be differences between our two Countries, but...

There are plenty of poor people here in the UK, Crono. The Brit Government has an obligation to house those who can't afford to buy/build their own property and still manages to house its population in something other than wooden houses. Surely the US - the richest Country on the planet and with far more resources available - can do too?

Also, here in the UK all new buildings (and changes to existing buildings) have to pass a series of Planning and Building Regulations before they're allowed to be built. Up until 5 years ago I worked for an Architects Practice producing CAD plans which had to adhere to these required building practices. Failure to do so could mean anything from prison terms to buildings being demolished. Surely there are also standard building practices in the US? In the best interests of not building wooden homes in the paths of hurricanes, if there aren't already regulations to stipulate that residences have to be built with strong building materials, surely there should be?

By no means do I wish this to appear to be an anti-US post or anything, but like I originally said it's always seemed odd to me that the US, with all its power & resources, has a large number of its population in South-Eastern States housed in wooden residences.

I didn't think you were being anti-US. But the US is set up as a corporation first type deal. Homes only have to meet a building standard set by the government (and pass inspections with utilities and stuff) ... as for governments actually supplying homes, that's few and far in between. The only government housing I've seen is for overtly poverty stricken areas in heavy populated urban areas. In which case the individuals have to qualify. To be honest, the government here tries to get out of paying you as much as possible ... unless you're on welfare, for some reason that's easy to milk, which is sad.

Brasso, I'm sure, could elaborate on US building practices ... maybe it'd make it clearer.

It doesn't matter if it's a better process, or safer, or whatever. It's cheaper. It's another way to make money. It's the same reason why motor companies who import cars actually make them less efficient (Yes, they do. For example, US Honda's have different timing for the fuel injectors as opposed to Japanese Honda's. Not that Honda's are all that efficient in the first place)

Look at it this way: How much money would several builders make from getting contracts to "rebuild" New Orleans?

I'm not sure if this is true or not, but, I heard that in the 1800s (sometime) SanFrancisco completely burnt to the ground (it was still being developed or something) and instead of cleaning up the debris and garbage, they built on top. Which, apparently, is one of the reason "Frisco" is unstable, and it's also on the Californian coast ... and on a fault line ...

But I'm not sure about that, it was just something I heard.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

I was actually quite surprised how badly it all went(the evacuation and the afterworks). For some reason or another I expected something more from such a high risk area... I just can't see how US was caught with its pants down on a situation like this. After all everyone knew it was coming. Even I although I don't live nowhere near there... It just blows my mind away how incabable people are to react when something unusual comes their way...

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''Everyone wades in s**t until they're competent enough to walk on it. Jesus style.''
Dystopia - Empires

Nickelplate said:
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting pepper</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

Sorry if i offended you, wasnt meant to be like that.

Its not that im pointing a finger at anyone or bashing america, i m just saying that iam surprised that there isnt some plan. And no, its not your fault that the hurricane hit, im just lucky enough to live in a country that doesnt have any hurricanes nearby. And i really feel sorry for all the people locked up in the city.
Explain the finacial help, america should be able to carry there own economy, they got the resources for it. Obvioulsy you need trade with other country's.

The financial hep thing is just this. We look like we have lots of money, but the problem is that only large corporations have money. the little regular people buy everything on credit. The only ppl with money here are Oil companies. lol. We trade with other countries, too, America sends out a s**tLOAD of money to other countries. Ppl criticize us for not sending enough immediately to aid the tsunami victims, but when we have flooding of our own, it seems that ppl just say "Oh well they look rich enough."

Plus, other ppl have a schadenfreude for america anyway.

Gwil, I meant ARAB terrorism, BTW.</div></div>

That is where a govenement is supposed to jump in, pay for new houses, draning the land etc. Atleast that is how it works over here, i assume you guys also pay taxes there so that shouldnt be the problem right?

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RUST Gamedesign
pepper design

The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee.

Pepper, the problem is that over here, we can't decide what kind of political system we use. The government wants to be capitalist when it suits them and socialist when it suits them. Pretty much everything over here is governed by corporate greed at the expense of little people like the victims of the hurricane.

Oh and on this subject AND the subject of insurance. Everyone's insurance premiums will go way up now in america to help insurance companies pay for all the claims filed down there. You'd think that all the f**kin money we've BEEN paying would cover it but apparently we all gotta pay for stupid ppl who wished to live 38 ft below sea level ONTHE COAST!

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com