Please direct your talents towards singleplayer. Besides, you'll get noticed more! There are literally millions of H-L 2 D.M. and C-S:S maps out there. It would be so much more exciting to see singleplayer maps being produced by the Pit. Then we would have something to relate to. Sorry but I have to get this off my back :redface:

Love, Flynn XXX

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Just Kidding

Just Kidding

I agree with the lack of SP projects. Maybe the upcoming competition could serve as a motivation boost towards SP mapping. If we come up with an appropriate theme.

There are many good reasons, however, for why most mappers prefer multiplayer. It's generally easier and you can watch hundreds of people play your map live on servers - which simply is more fun than reading a few reviews on websites.

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Why snark works.

The one small (actually, it's a pretty big :razz: ) problem with creating a single player game is that, well... you need to create a storyline. Anybody can think up of a story for a game. But not all can conjure up a good story that's worth playing the game for.

Although single player projects are a large undertaking for an individual, you don't have to worry about the balance issues that one encounters with a multi-player map. (and you can also skimp on the optimization just a tad if you're feeling lazy :razz: )

I'd try creating a single player story... but I have enough trouble thinking up themes for multi-player maps. I'm sort of stuck right now, so I just map some small unrelated things just for the sake of mapping.

I've actually been thinking of starting a SP project. Source multiplayer has always had lag issues, but it's a great engine for single player games.

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o

Baron von Snickers said:
Source multiplayer has always had lag issues, .

whispers

Spoken like a spoiled LPB. :heee:

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The best things in life, aren't things.

AlexW said:
The one small (actually, it's a pretty big :razz: ) problem with creating a single player game is that, well... you need to create a storyline. Anybody can think up of a story for a game. But not all can conjure up a good story that's worth playing the game for.

Sorry but I completely disagree. Gameplay is what matters. People love playing H-L 2, so if there is new content available people are going to lap it up like hot cakes. I see no reason why a story is necessary to make a good singleplayer map. Gameplay is what matters. If you give people good quality gameplay then they won't mind. And what do you mean by it's quite a large project for one person!? It's as large or as small as you want it to be.

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Just Kidding

Just Kidding

This all reminded me of how storylines where handled back in the good old days of Half-Life 1.

HL1 had dozens of short, fun little SP missions. This is how I was introduced to HL1 community mapping. They usually started where HL1 ended, had some random Gman encounters and a simple background story, mostly told in a few paragraphs of screen-text. And they were fun, people appreciated them.

Minerva, actually, is a modern example for this approach. All you have is a higher being with an impressive vocabulary, telling you to invade a combine base on an island - via text-messages. Then you go and... well, invade a combine base on an island.

Minerva, the much-hailed Mod phenomenon, getting into the Top-5 Mod of the Year charts doesn't have such a unique theme or idea. Minerva has a very simple premise. While explaining too little to the player to actually need a concrete background story it explains enough to keep him playing. Which isn't all that much.

Ok, it's done very smartly and with skill, I won't deny that. But it didn't need any new characters, cut-scenes or voice-acting. The best part of the story, although cleverly hidden from being too obvious, is the idea for an interesting piece of technology the Combine built. A pretty ordinary idea. So far, we don't even know what it is, it just looks cool and mysterious, and the powerful lady writes us emails in which she suggests it's powerful.

I don't believe it's that hard to come up with an interesting story for a HL2 SP map. I think it's not much harder than thinking of themes for multiplayer maps and, as AlexW said, there are many things that are actually easier in singleplayer. It just feels as if a SP idea is less appreciated than a MP idea. There is no room for medicority, for improvement especially. Everything gets compared to Minerva. At the moment Minerva is both the maximum (best mod evarr!!!1) and minimum (no new content!) of HL2 SP mapping. There aren't many popular examples around it, except for full-blown mods. I can only think of maybe 5 or 6 proper HL2 SP missions coming out since HL2 was released. There should be more room for good ideas, even small ones.

It's a shame there's not more support for manageable SP projects by individuals. I know I'm as responsible for this as the majority of the community. When I read threads like this I feel a bit ashamed for the MP mapping dominance everywhere.

We really need more support for fun, small SP maps.
And I agree with Flynn. Maybe I wouldn't dismiss the importance of a storyline so categorically. But story alone isn't an excuse for avoiding SP mapping.

...

Anyway, I'll go back working on my MP map... :sad:

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Why snark works.

Flynn said:
Sorry but I completely disagree. be.

The good thing about Snarkpit is, you're perfectly welcome to do so. You will however find that doing so in no way means you are correct.

Believe me, I disagree 90% of the time I am here and less than 10% of the people think I was correct. :kitty:

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Orph, I may be a LPB, but I can play a multiplayer game based on GoldSource, Quake 1 and 2 (and any of their GNU derivatives), Unreal Engine 1 and 2, and they're all pretty much lag-free. Every multiplayer game I've played that's based on the Source engine has had the infamous and ever-present hitbox lag, plus general inconsistency from players changing several network-related cvars to whatever they want, since the defaults are so bad.

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o

Oh, so you're not bitching about your connection then?

Oops, my bad. I get so tired of people bitching with connections less then 100. I thought perhaps that was your point.

As for the hitbox error, that happens on LAN too, so.. I sympathize.

For the record, I consider connection gripes LPB, not hitbox ones. :sad:

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Flynn has a point: SP maps can be great things to play - and to create. I had a lot of fun creating a HL SP map, lots of idea's are available that you just can't do in a multiplayer map.

And I agree it's not about the story. Think of Portal: it looks more like a casual puzzle game put into a FPS skin than a story-driven AAA title to me. And it sounds very promising to me exactly because of that. Story's are just an ingredient, and can add spice to a map, but it's not a necessary thing.

Oh well. :wink:

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

My main issue with SP maps is that a map the size of a DM map takes the
same (or more) time to make and the player spends about 5 minutes
playing through. Yes, that's less than a normal DM round! (unless you
put insanely hard puzzles that is).

DM maps have different themes, and you can do something completely
different after finishing one. SP makes you stay within a theme and
style for a much longer time, and it can sometimes be tiresome.

Anyway. I've done some SP maps in the past
(Testlab16,
Vilcabamba and
Sandscroll), and
I'm currently working in
another
one for HL1. SP mapping for Source is a different matter. My
three attempts have failed so far
(last one), and I
think it's hard to be motivated. Custom content isn't as easy to make
as it was before, and deviating from the HL2 standard (which Minerva or
Rock24 don't do) isn't easy.

I know it sounds absurd, but I'd like to see someone map a series of singleplayer maps, that can be easily converted to DM. When you consider a map like Bounce was part of the intro for HL1, but it was played a s**tload of times, it seems remotely possible to make a singleplayer champaign out of MP maps.

Then again, perhaps not.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Well, yes and no. I suppose it really just depends on how DMish the singleplayer map is made to begin with.

A good example would probably be the Doom1 maps -- if you play Zdaemon, chances are, you'll probably be running around the first chapter of doom in deathmatch mode. Despite that the first chapter of doom was a whipass single player campaign, only a handful of maps were actually worth the while for DM -- E1M9 and E1M3, for instance. Trying to create singleplayer map that is also DM'able is possible, but it's probably a major pain in the ass.

The way I see it is this: Make a singleplayer map, and if you want to convert it to DM, do NOT just do a basic archtecture and entity swap. Convert the basic architecture into your DM map, but then modify it for more circular flow and better speed. Naturally, go by whatever DM laws you have in the process, and always throw more weapons and ammo in :razz:

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Breaking the laws of mapping since 2003 and doing a damn fine job at it

Sorry but I completely disagree. Gameplay is what matters.
People love playing H-L 2, so if there is new content available people
are going to lap it up like hot cakes. I see no reason why a story is
necessary to make a good singleplayer map. Gameplay is what matters. If
you give people good quality gameplay then they won't mind. And what do
you mean by it's quite a large project for one person!? It's as large
or as small as you want it to be.

To completely dismiss the story-line of an SP game is wrong. While
gameplay is a major aspect of all maps, so is story and background; You
wouldn't bother playing Half Life 2 if you had nto played the first HL1
game. It was that drive to come back and play as freeman that hyped HL2
to players such as myself. Its not one or the other, but a well weaved
web of the two.

Half Life 2 single player project:

http://files.filefront.com/smc%20chapter1zip/;3846160;/fileinfo.html

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Posting And You

I'm trying to start a "quarterly" of short-form HL2 singleplayer maps - think of it as the level design equivalent of a short story - but it's not going too well, mainly because I can't get most of my prototypes to work for a potential pilot issue. There's always some random problem that totally kills my idea: for example, it's impossible to get the player to fight Dog, because Dog will only throw things when the player is looking in his direction as part of the catch & throw behavior. I suppose I could get some custom code done, but that kind of defeats the purpose of doing small-investment singleplayer maps. :\

As for the lack of smaller SP releases... I think that's more of a symptom of the monolithic mod project complex - release media, rinse, repeat.

Obviously, it's wrong to ignore the importance of an interesting storyline for Singleplayer maps.

But you could think of a story that specifically avoids all major custom content issues. That sounds like an awful limitation but it isn't. No-one expects the clever writing of Minerva. But for example, I've been thinking of a HL2 SP storyline for a while now which would work at a zero-effort of custom-content. And it wasn't too hard either.

"Monolithic mod project complex" indeed... Many mappers are intimidated by huge mod-projects that haven't released anything playable in 2 or 3 years. That's not the right competition.

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Why snark works.

Yes, storylines, small arcs or large arcs, but how about puzzle-oriented maps? Maps that lean more towards being different games than maps? That's probably what I would create, if I'd start it anyway...

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

it's all the scripting that keeps me from SP mapping...

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

I dunno it's not that hard unless your trying to do the bit from the final scene. In a game where even shooting the submachine gun is a joy in itself, I don't see why all the concerns are valid.

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Just Kidding

Just Kidding

i'd volunteer for voice acting.. =D

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the players tried to take the field
the marching band refused to yield

<html><head><link rel="stylesheet" href="themes/standard.css" type="text/css"></head><body topmargin=2 leftmargin=2>[quote]Please direct your talents towards singleplayer. Besides, you'll get noticed more! There are literally millions of H-L 2 D.M. and C-S:S maps out there. It would be so much more exciting to see singleplayer maps being produced by the Pit. Then we would have something to relate to. Sorry but I have to get this off my back :redface:

Love, Flynn XXX

[/quote]

too much work

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f**k Fun maps!

ahem
http://www.snarkpit.net/forums.php?forum=2&topic=7018&19
and
http://www.halfwit-2.com/aild

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Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying

I knew about this but this is just crazy =b Sorry about the start of the sentence being at the top, it won't let me change it

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Just Kidding

Just Kidding

Yes, Stadric, you?re a legitimate hero of this thread :biggrin:

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Why snark works.

Oh yeah, I'm a regular Superman.

:rolleyes:

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Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying

I'd like to say that I started an sp "mini mod" in late June of last year and am deep in the design process. I am taking my time with this mod giving my best. I've bought the books, and read the forums and am certainly attempting to approach it in a "professional" manner as best i can. Before ever continuing on with the project, i asked myself something that i think is quintessential for all sp mappers/ modders out there to ask themselves: What will make my mod stand out from the rest? OR Why would someone ever play my mod? I answered that question in my mod, by keeping a pretty strait forward storyline, but offering a variety of game play opportunities. That is, I've come up with certain "landmarks" that allow the player to experience scenes not played in other games before (none that I've researched). I want the player to sit back after a landmark and think: "whoa!" That is my goal. But to do that, unfortunately (in my mod), I am creating a butt-load of custom content. It's the only way i can differentiate my mod, from the atmosphere of HL2. The mod should reach alpha by the end of this year. Codename: Sea_Trek if that gives anyone an idea.

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Blog: www.playingarchitecture.net
LinkedIn: Eric Lancon
Twitter:@Riven202

Got any screen for us to see yet?

No completed maps at the moment, just pictures of finished models, textures, and a little hand drawn concept art that i am currently trying to color in photoshop with my new tablet! :biggrin:

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Blog: www.playingarchitecture.net
LinkedIn: Eric Lancon
Twitter:@Riven202

Well models screenies are always appreciated.

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Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying

Well, I don't think this is the place for it, but I'll post some any way:

Yes, those are Russian letters. This is supposed to be a front desk like those you see when you walk into a big business lobby.



And some architecture for a hallway:



I'd rather not post any more pictures because I'm still in the design phase of this, and these are not final pictures of any scenes in the mod. But these are supposed to be finished models, which may not make the cut. Please feel free to give me some criticism on them!

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Blog: www.playingarchitecture.net
LinkedIn: Eric Lancon
Twitter:@Riven202

I think that desk in the first screen looks too much like a spool. You should bring out the inner curve. Keep it convex, just minimize the (opposite of bulge).

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Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying