Mudanchee

images dont show btw

click the picture so the new window with the red-x picture comes up. right-click the red-x and go to properties and find the url and copy and paste that into a new browser window.
I liked pic 4 the most, looked very cool.

Still getting the 404, m8te.

Screenshots don't work in links most of the times because of the webspace provider, Websamba, uses a frame on top of it... Too bad...

But I'll fix the problem now...

Looks good so far! I'll second some of the comments I've seen in the thread - for example, the rock texture should be horizontal (sedimentary rock forms in layers vertically. ), you might want to find another wood texture, etc. I think I recall you saying some of that was in the works.

I think you really should emphasize the level-over-level here, otherwise it will get far too linear. You get some variation in that third shot, but try to keep extra routes above and below to keep things interesting - 3 or even 4 layers could make for some insane vertical combat. Keep up the good work

The adding of more levels is a good one, KungFuSquirrel...

And the textures I have already rotated a little...

Like KFS said, rotate the textures. ANd focuse on more of a vertical combat rather than a horizontal combat. You really need to find a new wood texture. It wouldn't repeat as much and your r_speeds would reduce if you're using the texture I think you are.

images dont show btw

click the picture so the new window with the red-x picture comes up. right-click the red-x and go to properties and find the url and copy and paste that into a new browser window.
I liked pic 4 the most, looked very cool.

Still getting the 404, m8te.

Screenshots don't work in links most of the times because of the webspace provider, Websamba, uses a frame on top of it... Too bad...

But I'll fix the problem now...

Looks good so far! I'll second some of the comments I've seen in the thread - for example, the rock texture should be horizontal (sedimentary rock forms in layers vertically. ), you might want to find another wood texture, etc. I think I recall you saying some of that was in the works.

I think you really should emphasize the level-over-level here, otherwise it will get far too linear. You get some variation in that third shot, but try to keep extra routes above and below to keep things interesting - 3 or even 4 layers could make for some insane vertical combat. Keep up the good work

The adding of more levels is a good one, KungFuSquirrel...

And the textures I have already rotated a little...

Finally, I made it this far. My previous maps usually failed because I
couldn't tie all those loose detailed parts together to a working
layout. Now, I've started simple and focussed on getting that layout
done before detailing it.

I think I succeeded in that: I playtested today and we had a lot of fun
in the map. Still some issues now and then, but it's getting there. :smile:

Ok, on to some screenshots:

(please note that the textures are mostly temporarily, especially those grey dev ones)



The archeologic site-cave



A peek at the glowing crystals



Archeologic site overview shot



'tomb' cave overview shot



Crystals up close

That's all I've got to show so far, but within some weeks details will get added so the map should get more character over time.

I'll also put up a download of the alpha version as soon as possible, which likely is at the end of this week.

Comments are more than welcome. :smile:

---

Create-ivity - a game development blog

What an amazing application of displacement surfaces. Not only is this technically impressive, but it also looks refreshingly distinct. I know it's the effect you're going after all along, and I have to say that you attained it successfully.

Alas, no more warehouses or abandoned buildings. The gameplay looks fun too, with a lot of z-axis plays.

---

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge

Looks like Tiberium crystals.

I agree with satchmo's comments.

Looking forward to see what this looks like after you get rid of those
dev textures. It reminds me a bit of the Uldaman in World of
Warcraft, except much darker and spookier.

Yes, looks hawt

---

http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/8521/windows981dk.jpg

Nickelplate is my dad

Thanks guys. :smile:

It's not tiberium, just light-emitting crystals. I was aiming for a
mystic athmosphere, with those crystals and tomb elements. I think I'll
add some fog and damping particle effects in the water cave and all to
make it appear more mystical.

---

Create-ivity - a game development blog

The sound of dripping water and muffled screams echoing through the dark corridors would be cool.

turning into something really nice and atmospheric, keep it up :wink:

---

These words are my diaries screaming out loud

I agree with satchmo. I dont know how you want the lighting, but i
think it would be cool if you let narrow paths and areas of the room
very or completely dark.

I love paranoia in computer games =P.

<span style="text-decoration: underline;"></span>

No more-of-the-same HL2 themes. :smile:

Hehe, well, the cave theme is not as original as you think, but not half as exploited as the HL2 one.

I agree, the way you used displacements is very nice but I was just
wondering: don't you have that alpha mask bug most of us seem to have?

It's doesn't look like he's applied any alpha yet.

Back on topic, I've always enjoyed atmospheric map. Can't wait to play it :smile:

---

Dark_Kilauea
DVS Administration
http://www.dvstudio-production.com/

Thanks for the comments so far. :smile:

If it's a little further detailed and all, it'd be nice to have it
betatested on the Snarkpit server. Is anyone playing on the server
these days? I haven't been there for a while so...

Hehe, well, the cave theme is not as original as you think, but not half as exploited as the HL2 one.

I agree, the way you used displacements is very nice but I was just
wondering: don't you have that alpha mask bug most of us seem to have?

I know it's not original, heh, the idea for this came from another game (Abe's Oddworld)... :smile:

But it's something else than the usual themes for HL2DM maps and it's
athmospheric, plus it lends itself fine for impressive area's and
interesting theme's. I like maps with great, high area's. Not really
accessible area's always but just to impress players.

Also, yes, I have the alpha-bug. In the editor it's quite strange to
work with a grassy cave but since I had done most of the displacement
maps before that update, that's not a too big problem. I usually work
with dismaps in lightmap mode anyway to see the relief better.

---

Create-ivity - a game development blog

I haven't encountered this bug?
Back to the map:

The displacements are very unique and it reminds me of that CS:S level for testing FPS :smile:

Keep up the good work.

I like maps with great, high area's. Not really
accessible area's always but just to impress players.

I agree. Can we get some shots of your level thats show off the
ceilings in your level? Do they just fade up into darkness so it
seems like you're at the bottom of a chasm?

You can download the alpha-stage version now so you can see for
yourself if you wish... :smile: There'll be a playtest on the Snarkpit
server soon too.

I plan on letting fade most ceilings into dark, though some will be
dimly lit by crystals or what-have-you. Right now, most of them are
somewhat visible and they aren't that high just yet.

---

Create-ivity - a game development blog

I playtested it on the snarkpit server a few minutes ago and heres what i discovered:

Gameplay:

I think that everyone who was playing the map do agree with me when I
say that this map is really fun. It was action packed and intensive. I
think that it was so much fun simply because it had so many variations
in the Z-axiss.

I think that if you add even more varation in the Z-axis with platforms and such, it would be even more fun.

However, I have one complaint, the spawnpoints. They dont seem to be
planned at all. People spawn in the middle of corridors, and i dont
know how many times i killed a guy from behind and he didnt even have a
chance to turn around.

Try to place the spawnpoints at better locations where they are a bit more protected during the first three seconds.

Players got stuck all the time aswell, but i think you are aware of that.

Ill post some screenies of this when I have time.

Architecture:

Since the map is in very early stage its pretty hard to give you any
opinions about the architecture, however i have a few suggestions here
aswell.

It would be cool if you added some epic elements to the map, not just
narrow corridors and small cave rooms. Remember that you are using the
Source engine, not the hl1 one. Its very powerful and can do more than
you think.

Dont be a coward! Strech the ceilings and the bottom of the cave much further to create giant shafts and stuff in certain areas.

There where different opinions about the lighting, but im happy with it
although i still think that you need to add some finesse aswell as more
contrast into it.

Make the dark corners much darker, and the green light from the crystals much greener.

Think thats about it for the time being.. Ill check back if I get other ideas.

Looking good so far.

Things i'd suggest to fix soem of the problems experienced at the alpha test earlier today:

raise the spawns that are on slopes a few units off the floor, so none of the bounding box is intersecting a brush.

globally multiply the light with the VRAD switch (sorry i cant remember which one it is) by a small amount

possibly add a little bit more ammo

Great layout though :smile:

Thanks people, it was fun playtesting with you. I'm glad to see the map
is holding well with these player amounts. Also nice to see some other
people came in and liked it. :smile:

So far, my TODO list is like this:

• Fix spawnpoints, place them better.

• Fix the getting stuck points, adding some playerclip to avoid falling

between rocks and platforms where these are close to each other.

• Make the caves more impressive. I am adding a large waterfall to the

water cave and I plan another few caves that aren't accessible but look
deep, large. Most caves will be enlarged vertically now.

• Fix the lighting. I'm going for a style that emphasizes the routes

players can take, and that puts some details forward, while leaving
most of the cave-walls dark or dimly lit to give it a stronger
athmosphere.

• Fixing some dismaps, tidying stuff up so no more grey brushes are visible.

• Of course, creating more prop models to give each of 4 area's it's

own characteristics. This should make the map look better and easier to
learn by giving landmarks.

• Creating custom materials for the rocks, platforms and waterfalls.

• That's pretty much it I think...

DONE list:

• Earlier playtests showed that the waterfall cave was less used, and

didn't flow well. I've added platforms and a gimmick there now to make
it flow better.

• Added some weapons, there's now 2 AR2's and shotguns in the level and

a couple more grenades. I've also hidden 6 batteries and 6 vials in the
map that are harder, or at least different to get than other items. :smile:

---

Create-ivity - a game development blog

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Captain P</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>I'm going for a style that emphasizes the routes players can take, and that puts some details forward, while leaving most of the cave-walls dark or dimly lit to give it a stronger athmosphere.
</DIV></DIV>

i thought about this too. nice!

---

These words are my diaries screaming out loud

I've updated the download link now after some updates.

Fixed:

- Spawnplaces are now fixed, you shouldn't get stuck anymore while spawning.

- Started adding player clips. Not all area's are done yet though.

Added:

- Tweaked the layout somewhat and changed it more radically in
the waterfall cave. This now has a better flow to it (playtesting
should tell if it works better).

- Added some gimmicks. There are 6 'hidden' health vials around now, and 6 (more) hidden batteries.

- Added a few models and materials, basically I've started detailing the map in the crystal cave.

- Made the archeologic and tomb cave higher and deeper.

Soon there will be a playtest again, maybe this evening if things can
be settled, otherwise I'd like to organize one and set a time. Please
tell me what you think of these additions. :smile:

---

Create-ivity - a game development blog

Amazing map, i mean like WOW, really nice, i have this question for you
man..

• How the hell did you do those amazing displacements ?? PLEASE TELL
  ME DUDE !! :biggrin: </li>

And i have suggestion for this UbeR MaP :razz:

• Adding DustMotes

Really makes a nice gloomy realistic cave like map..You could make a
hole in the ceiling, making whats behind the hole a skybox, small one,
with an env_sprite to make it as if the light is too bright to be seen
out there, you know what i mean right ?? and make a beam of light
coming down with dust motes :biggrin:

Tell me if you like it :smile:

---

.::Dark|Masta::. - One name. One legend.

Hey, that dustmotes idea is good. Thought about it myself somewhat for
the water cave but it could fit with the rest too to make those cave
depths feel... mystic, deep or such. That env_sun is something I want
to add but haven't gotten around just yet. I plan on adding another
cave branch that will be unaccessible but contains some sun rays and
stuff, I'll see about that.

As for the displacements, I think I'll release the maps source once I'm
done for others to learn. There's quite some people that haven't got
the hang of dismapping yet so it could be usefull.

---

Create-ivity - a game development blog

To tell you the truth, i really suck at displacements :smile:

---

.::Dark|Masta::. - One name. One legend.

Ok people, some new screenshots are up. Note that the download isn't
refreshed - it's still the older version we playtested last time.

Anyway, I added several props (that need yet to be skinned though) and
changed the lighting a lot in most area's. The paths should be better
visible this time while the caves are still quite dark up high and deep
below to keep that athmosphere. :smile:

Well, here goes:



Gloomy lighting on a dark, high rock-wand



Dangling worklights... yeah, gravity-gun-fun... :smile:



More worklights and electricity cables. The generator still has to be modelled.



Waterfall. Spot the secret...



View from within the tomb. The tomb itself is now deeper and possibly holds a trap for those RPG-lovers.

Well, what do you people think? It's mainly the lighting that I've worked on now, so... does it work well now? :smile:

---

Create-ivity - a game development blog

It's looking good. I kind of wish that fire was casting more of a
red glow within that chamber. I guess I just wish there was a
little more lighting variety... something besides the white and green.

Perhaps some different light sources, like some blues.

Hmm, reddish light glows... yeah, that'll definitely make it in. I
agree on the variety, maybe some torches would do good or some
yellowish flashlights or such? Or orange light rays in the water-cave...

About bleu lights, those work-lights are blue but probably not blue
enough. I'll see what effect a more bleuish light has on them.

Thanks for the suggestions. :smile:

---

Create-ivity - a game development blog

As I said on mapcore, I reckon you should try a subtley coloured
ambient light, to provide a base coat of lighting to the level. Could
mean your really dark sections lose something, but at the moment
everything is too white. I'd be inclined to say orange, but then I
always do :biggrin: Your man made lights should definately be more blue to
match the glows in my opinion.

---

[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

When we played it on the sp serv, I enjoyed it. but my fav moments
where were you could kill someone near the edge or almost fall off
yourself, only to the dissapointment that there is 90% of the time a
cave floor beneath.

I wish there were more places to actually fall off, I think that would
make it far more interesting, oh and texture those crates! :razz:

---

My Pit

33 minutes and 20 seconds later:

Do you really think this map was worth it? I will let you know if you were right.

[EDIT]

Its obvious that you have either never been inside a cave before or, you are not shooting for realism. Something that the HL2 engine can deliver BTW.

1] discounting the lighting, which I assume will be augmented to give a cave/underground feel, I cannot add anything to the comments about lights until I see a more advance compile. All the unskinned props are ruining the feel/atmosphere.

2] the wooden planking. Again, it doesn't look realistic. Planks are added to an existing aperture. yours actually inserts itself within the walls in places. Its obvious that you have a considerable amount of overlapped solids present.

3] again the plank pathways. You need some upper support. Ropes, chains or cables. Its not important what but something needs to be holding all that lumber up.

4] the wind? again, not realistic. caves with that much of a breeze needs an outlet. Preferably in the top. a volcanic vent type hole would suit.

5] the planking again. all of them seemed to be made of the same wood, and running the same direction. alter the material and direction a bit.

6] slow the waterfall down a bit or perhaps decrease the volume of water falling over it. a fall of that type would steam up the whole area in fog.

7] rock types, although many caves contain the same materials, many are often wet and dry in places. try to make yours appear so.

8] have a few broken guard rails scattered about. preferably made out of rope or chains/cable

9] light rays from the sun through cracks can increase authenticity and depth.

10] tone down all noises. caves are horribly quiet places. also, sound is swallowed up easily in caves, keep the volume at a level so you cannot hear it all from everywhere.

11] unless this is a new cave, there will always be some material either falling from the ceilings, or building up on the ground. new caves may do this to but the edges will be sharper. older caves have rounded edges.

12] if these opinions do not suit you. ignore them.

---

There is no history until something happens, then there is.

Ow, yeah, you have 56k... Hmm, then I guess this test build wasn't
worth it yet. Much of what you've seen is still worked on, but it's
still helpfull for me to pinpoint the things I'd forget otherwise.

I agree on the planking, I'm planning on replacing all of it with
modelled planks eventually or at least a significant part of it to give
it a more realistic feeling. Support beams are added as we speak, I'm
using metal bars as seen on construction sites and wooden beams as
well. Got more suggestions for variety?

I like 7, 8 and 10. Didn't think about wet rocks actually, and though I
am adding guard railings they're all planks or metal bars. Me likes the
rope idea.

I thought about adding light beams too, tried some, but I don't think
they really work well in the water cave just yet, that'll take some
experimenting. Maybe I'll add some sort of unaccessible side-cave that
has them.

And the sounds, well, I've been in caves but that's a long time ago.
They're quite, yeah, so the sounds I've put in are mainly just to test
the sound entities. It's being worked on right now.

Big thanks for your comments and suggestions. I am shooting for some realism so I could use em, I guess... :smile:

---

Create-ivity - a game development blog

Captain P, im sick of asking myself: HOW THE HELL DID YOU DO THOSE DISPLACEMENTS !?!?!?

Atlast, i asked you, i really want to know, do you use terrain generator ?? or did you do them all by your self ??

If you did them by yourself, TELL ME HOW ... PLease :biggrin:

Thank You :smile:

---

.::Dark|Masta::. - One name. One legend.

As I said on mapcore, I reckon you should try a subtley coloured
ambient light, to provide a base coat of lighting to the level. Could
mean your really dark sections lose something, but at the moment
everything is too white. I'd be inclined to say orange, but then I
always do :biggrin: Your man made lights should definately be more blue to
match the glows in my opinion.

But you've got to be careful what colour you select as your ambient light,
because that determines the colour of the shadows cast by physics
items, props, pickups, etc. I found this out the hard way in Hydro,
where the pinkish ambient light made all the mentioned shadows bright
pink. It's pretty stupid, they might have fixed it by now, but I doubt
it. Either way just test it with loose props around.

---

Ham and Jam Contributor
http://www.hamandjam.org

'Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!'

Hmm, no, I'll think I won't use an ambient light but instead use some
low-lit, highly linear or constant lights so I have some more control
about the background light for each area (each area will get it's own
light-style and color usage to make them more distinct, same goes for
different props) and then I'm able to leave some parts just black like
high up or deep down in the caves.

So, that was what caused your pinky prop shadows? Now I see... thought it was some sort of bug.

Dark|Killer: contact me on msn and I could give you some more detailed instructions. :smile:

---

Create-ivity - a game development blog

Yeah Captain...How did you make such nice looking displacements? I can make mountains but caves are hard...

Basically, they're just vertical displacement maps, mostly modified on
the x and y axis. I'll release the source of the map once I'm done
though, perhaps with some sort of article about workflow and Source, so
you all will be able to see how I did this. If you're really desperate
for some dismapping examples, you can contact me on msn or mail me. :wink:

---

Create-ivity - a game development blog

Wow, it's been even 4 months since I last updated this!

Well, I'm working on it again, adding more models to up the detail levels. It'll take me some time to get back into this, but the map is nearing completion. Phew, glad to see this thing being finished soon. :smile:

---

Create-ivity - a game development blog

Going to have another snarkpit playtest?

---

Dark_Kilauea
DVS Administration
http://www.dvstudio-production.com/

That'd be a great idea, yeah. :smile:

Right now I'm adding more prop models (pickaxes, hammer (4.0)s, crystal shards) and I think a playtest would be good to help me place them well across the map. Plus, it'd be good fun to play again, methinks. :smile:

---

Create-ivity - a game development blog