2006 Mapping competition.

I have watched each competition thread rise and stall in mid flight to many times now and had a thought today. A competition that anyone can finish, no matter what time constraints they have.
This competition will be "One zone of influence"
The area can be as small as a closet, or as big as an amphitheater. The only restriction will be, that it can have no exits. You cannot leave the area in any way, be it a doorway, or a teleporter.
The area will be judged on these categories.

• Originality
• Creativity
• Attention to detail
• Craftsmanship
• Complexity
  </LI>

The area can be purely fictional, as with a bridge of a starship.
The area can be purely functional, as with a garage/workshop.
In case of a tie, the winner will be determined by the most original creation. Garages are a dime a dozen so to speak. But a very well crafted garage could very well win the whole thing.
The area will be judged by the whole membership roster, but to maintain order, a panel of overseer judges will make sure that each person is fairly represented. The overseers will, or can be voted into position. The choice is up to the entrants.
For the sake of sportsmanship, and motivation to my fellow peers, even yours truly will submit something. In this way, it will illustrate that even someone with my work schedule can make one stinking area.
The contest will begin (To be announced). But only one Month Fellas, whichever month that may be.
The prize will only be the prestige you will gain by participating in an event that will hopefully spark new ideas for mapping.
I submit this idea for the good of the Snarkpit, but will leave it to a vote. I feel that it is a contest that has a foreseeable ending and some fantastic results.
I also hope that every member who submits a room will offer it for public use after the contest ends. This may promote some wild combinations for a map or three.
This idea is also up for vote as you can see, and can be hashed out for details for the next 24 hours or so. After that, the result of the vote will determine if it proceeds or not.
Opinions?????
[EDIT]
I was also thinking that, we should restrict ourselves to original texture sets to assist in compatibility.
Another thing to consider strongly. Anything made into one area... HL1 mapping,CS,TFC,OP4... anything HL related. I am sure that most of us have enough games installed to download and vote for our favorites.
My last suggestion for tonight... Anyone with connections to other HL2 related sites please pass on the word. This might entice a few dozen newer mappers to creativity.
[EDIT 1a] A great suggestion is to submit as many rooms as one wishes. As long as each room follows the criteria. (Thanx Stadric, I thought of this today too but forgot to include it into the original post)
[EDIT 2]
Has anyone besides me noticed that the cuss word filter doesn't work in the polls?

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Just to kick us off on the feedback stakes, I voted yes and thoroughly
support the idea. It means i'd get something released, for one :razz:

I like it, simple and original(Simply original!)

My only gripe would be wether or not I could submit more than one map.

I like it both ways, because that way we wont be flooded with so damn many entries.

I'd participate in this.

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Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying

I was wondering, should we add "Complexity" to the judging categories?

[EDIT]

Oh, and I would consider a Rats theme to be one room, as long as you couldn't leave it, or enter anything within it. Entering say, an enclosed doll house would be leaving your room. At least IMO, but thats a judgment call for a majority vote.

Of course, a Rats map would be unoriginal, but the room could still be unique. Thus original in a sense.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Orpheus said:
The contest will begin March 15th 2006 and end May 15th 2006.

arggh, you've given yourself a months head start. no fair. :shocked:

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i eat paint

Hehe, I hope that was a booboo on your part Orph and not just underhand tactics at play

I think its quite a cool idea, but the limitation of "a room" is kinda difficult. Maps aren't always too easy to define in terms of obvious rooms - for example, when does a sheltered alcove stop being an alcove and become a room? I guess we can just go with a bit of common sense rather than semantics though eh?

I also think the dates need to be changed - starting tomorrow (I assume that's what you meant right?) is too early. Fair enough, a month is plenty of time for a room, but we can probably get the word out a bit if we start it in a few weeks time instead.

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

Yeah, I am sleepy.

/me fixes.

I can assure you that I have built nothing this year. Hell, I only updated Hammer last week, remember?

Definition: Room- Anything that is contained within one region. (I would consider the Grand Canyon one region, if you were silly enough to make it and have no exits.

And as far as the date goes... Anything works for me as long as the duration is but one month.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Ok, going good so far, but I've got a question:

Can we have other rooms visible in any way, just as long as the player
cannot enter them.(I forsee a conflict involving skyboxes and monitors)

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Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying

Stadric said:
Ok, going good so far,

Really? My concern is mounting. Its been hours and there are 3 paltry votes. Even if its the suckiest idea since... killboxes, I'd have expected many more votes.

For a site clamoring for new maps, you'd think some response would be apparent. Even negativity.

shrugs

I envisioned a clamor of excitement.

Now, at to your question. The overseers would determine if the map fell into the prescribed criteria. Thats their purpose. If a map was submitted that was outside the design, they would ask the party to edit it. That simple.

Now, the way I see it, the description is relatively simple. An area/room/region/zone/continent can be made. You cannot leave it.

If someone built a hallway in an office building 30 stories tall. They could make the offices, but bar the players from entering any of them. If the author truly wanted reality, then the offices would be a must to add to the creativity and complexity. No one would win a competition making a hallway with 35 closed doors.

If someone wanted to make an airport landing field. They could, as long as they couldn't enter any building within the field or any planes for that matter.

If someone wanted to make an airplane, that would be great, as long as the passengers couldn't leave. The later, after the competition is over, the two authors could combine the maps to make one airport that functions.

Skyboxes don't count. You cannot enter them so adding one to your map wouldn't count as making two areas. Your map would be your area with a nice skybox.

Keep up the good questions but try not to complicate this into stalling... Like all the other competitions that failed to materialize.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

I think its quite a cool idea, but the limitation of "a room" is kinda difficult. Maps aren't always too easy to define in terms of obvious rooms - for example, when does a sheltered alcove stop being an alcove and become a room? I guess we can just go with a bit of common sense rather than semantics though eh?

I think in order to give a "room" or any area in a map depht and atmosphere there must be at least a small seperate area that's not necessarily visible from every corner. That doesn't mean it has to be a seperate room, though. But a "sheltered alcove" should be explicitly allowed IMHO.

Also from what I read gameplay/layout is irrelevant for the contest? It's all about the looks?

I think its a great idea for a new mapping comp. But 1 room? meh

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting reaper47</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

I think in order to give a "room" or any area in a map depht and atmosphere there must be at least a small seperate area that's not necessarily visible from every corner. That doesn't mean it has to be a seperate room, though. But a "sheltered alcove" should be explicitly allowed IMHO.

Also from what I read gameplay/layout is irrelevant for the contest? It's all about the looks?

</DIV></DIV>

Think of it like a giant prefab contest. The usability will come into play if/when someone attach's it to another map.

Truly, the contest is only to spark creativity, not functionality. No one is ever going to frag one room but, the room might spark someone, specifically the author into creating a whole map.

This contest isn't about making a map, but to strut your stuff in creating something.. That "Something" is entirely up to you.

As for alcoves... As long as they are not entities unto themselves. If you created culverts that you could walk into in a construction area/room/region, you wouldn't truly be creating another room inside the culvert.

snowforskate said:
I think its a great idea for a new mapping comp. But 1 room? meh

But dammit, every time it gets more complex than that the competition falters and dies.

No one says that a hallway will win, but who says that your creation MUST be as small as one room?????

Use your freaking imagination. Create something grand, but restrict it to no exits. Is that to hard to conceive?

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The best things in life, aren't things.

that is a great idea, ill definetly join in.
but im still confused a bit - when does it start? :rolleyes:

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Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
"I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!"

rival said:
that is a great idea, ill definetly join in.
but im still confused a bit - when does it start? :rolleyes:

If the beginning date is the only thing confusing you, you need to head this team.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Orpheus</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting rival</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>that is a great idea, ill definetly join in.
but im still confused a bit - when does it start? :rolleyes: </DIV></DIV>

If the beginning date is the only thing confusing you, you need to head this team.

</DIV></DIV>
we need to get dates sorted, i got an idea and i want to get started.
other than the dates i dont see anything that needs to elaborated on, it all seems simple enough. an area you cant leave or enter.

EDIT: we need judges as well

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Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
"I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!"

The date is unimportant.

1) If we have never seen it, you can claim it was created after the comp begins.
2) the competition is 100% on the honor system. We trust that you will not begin prior.
3) voting for overseer/judges will wait for confirmation that they will be needed.
4) I too think its a feasible concept and one that should bring out the best in us all. If we can get past the "This idea is beneath me" attitudes. I haven't seen anyone here good enough to disqualify themselves through shear experience. :rolleyes:

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The best things in life, aren't things.

1. Originality
2. Creativity
3. Attention to detail
4. Craftsmanship
5. Complexity

You could also add these if wanted...

1. gameplay/map flow
2. Map playability/ how good she runs

Gameplay to me would be an importnat thing to consider. Even tho its supposed to be one room the map could still have horrable gameplay design, or horrable player flow, but still be up to par with all the other catigories.

1. gameplay/map flow
2. Map playability/ how good she runs

Gameplay to me would be an importnat thing to consider. Even tho its supposed to be one room the map could still have horrable gameplay design, or horrable player flow, but still be up to par with all the other catigories.

This isnt about gameplay

Orpheus said:
Truly, the contest is only to spark creativity, not functionality. No one is ever going to frag one room but, the room might spark someone, specifically the author into creating a whole map.

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SourDough2.0 - With Strawberry Jam

I should prob get some sleep one of these days...lol Had I, I prob would have realized that b4 I posted.

I suggest changing the contest theme to "make the best killbox
ever!" . A killbox is, after all, a single large room, but axed
around gameplay. I was thinking that, given how limited in size a
killbox map can be, the mapper can afford to stick all sorts of detail
in there. That way we'd be raising the bar for killbox mapping.

Thought: Allow both HL2 and HL1 maps, since there are still a lot
of mappers who haven't gotten around to HL2 mapping for their own
reasons

(possibly consider different grading criteria for the two different types?)

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Breaking the laws of mapping since 2003 and doing a damn fine job at it

we first need to decide if it's gonna be a killbox contest or a room contest. A killbox involves gameplay and has certain minimum dimensions, whereas a room has no dimension restrictions and is basicly a 3D painting.

Also, if custom models are allowed, i say custom textures should be allowed too. allowing them would be making your 3D painting more beautiful. maybe have a vote on this too?

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These words are my diaries screaming out loud

I vote HL2 only. The time has come for those of you not mapping for hl2 to get up to speed. As far as a room vs a killbox, That seems to be simply a matter of semantics. If, as the rules say, playability is not a factor, than whatever purpose the room has is irrelevant as a judging factor.

This compo sounds interesting. I won't say I'll join - got some other priorities to handle - but it's a nice compo that requires little initial effort yet allows more for those who want it. Good idea there, Orph. :smile:

It may be nice to put in some singleplayer playability for those who want to do so, like a puzzle or two or some combat...

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

Sometimes I wonder if I type to hear my own keyboard clicking. So few seem to read a word I write.

@ SnowForSkate, how can you have "Playability" and "Flow" in a single area? I realize that for most of us, the general consensus seems to be "Area = tiny" but I beg to differ. My room/area/zone/geographical location is going to be rather large. On the order of "BIG" so lets not get all confused but even so, playability and flow aren't going to be a priority since it will "HAVE NO EXITS!"

@ Rumple. Thanx a bunch for covering for me. I appreciate it.

@ Blueballs. I already specified that I feel any HL game should be allowed. My reasoning is simple. Not everyone has bought HL2 yet and to exclude them on a simple one room contest seems awfully unfair.

@ Juim, same as post above. Not everyone lives in the USA to Britain. Some here either don't have HL2 yet, or cannot afford it. I have good friends here who I know do not have the machine to run it yet. I'd rather have them join us in an older game engine than not have them join at all.

@ EVERYONE... If you want to make a killbox, go right ahead. You know as well as I do that it will never win, but if it makes you happy, I am happy, and I imagine everyone else will be too. A killbox definitely has no exits and is contained within one zone. You may fail in originality, but you might just win with craftsmanship, if your box is made up of more than lifts and grating. :rolleyes:

Again, let me stress. The idea is to be creative. You got to admit two things. Creating one area/zone/room/whatever cannot possibly take over one month and you sure as hell should be able to admit that creating one room and making it "Interesting" is one hell of a challenge.

People, lets have fun. and maybe produce something to be proud of.

[EDIT] If anyone posts in another thread about this contest, please post a link to it so we can keep tabs on its popularity elsewhere. I am interested to see who thinks that they are just to freaking good for this and who is humble enough to be interested. I have met some of the best mappers out there and IMO, none of them are so skilled as to be above it.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Alright, no gameplay just the looks then! Alcoves are ok as long as they are obviously a part of the room and nothing that could stand for itself. No more questions.

I vote hell yes!

reaper47 said:
No more questions.

Forever the optimist aren't you?

I like that. Its a lost cause but I like the tenacity.

Bad thing is, we have only 12 votes and 3,200+ members. I figure we will have more.... confused posts soon. :rolleyes:

I'd like to see... 40 or 50 votes at least, but... Thats even more optimistic than you.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Well I'm game for it orph :smile: I'll be watching this thread

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Breaking the laws of mapping since 2003 and doing a damn fine job at it

ok. but the question still stands: would the majority prefer custom models and/or custom textures, or shouldn't they be allowed as initially stated ?

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These words are my diaries screaming out loud

ok. but the question still stands: would the majority prefer custom models and/or custom textures, or shouldn't they be allowed as initially stated ?

Let's keep it as initially stated. Custom textures/models are a lot of work to do right and would delay the whole thing for weeks.

I would rather them not be allowed BUT...

I see no reason not to use them as long as:

1) They are already ready for use and will cause no delay.
2) You make everything available ( In a separate zip, assuming you wadincluded) for the users to have when the competition is complete.

This way, if Blister wins, and someone wants to use his area, they have the tools to do it with.

Hows that sound?

I assume everyone understood that the VMFs will be released once the competition is compete.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

I didn't notice your mention about releasing the source files after the contest, but now its been drawn to my attention, I don't think it is something we should enforce. I generally don't have problems with giving people the source files to levels for learning purposes, but I don't like the idea of people having a selection of rooms to plug together into prefabricated levels. "Wild combinations" of other people's rooms does not a good map make.

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

i agree with reno. .vmf s can be given to people who request them ofcourse, but throwing them out in the open for everyone to grab, modify, and publish... mm rather not.

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These words are my diaries screaming out loud

Well see, heres the problem. This contest is to teach basically. If one doesn't have the VMF, then all you can learn from is the bsp. If anyone was going to "Learn" from just downloading .bsp files, then they wouldn't need a competition of this nature. They could frag maps and learn while they do so.

You can hope that they won't just "Plonk" it into a map, but with decompilers, you couldn't stop them anyway. Only the unscrupulous would plonk anyway, and their maps would show it.

I agree that we cannot "Enforce" a vmf release, but who would want to keep a room/area/zone all to themselves anyway?

If someone doesn't want to release it, so be it but... It seriously retracts from the goal... Which is teaching/motivating. :sad:

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The best things in life, aren't things.

I get the idea of motivating, but I don't think an open contest where you can look at peoples maps is the best way of teaching. Not everybody entering is going to be making things the most efficient/correct way - people looking at the source files could teach as many bad habits as good ones. Unless you meant it in the way of people entering can have the source files looked and and recieve constructive criticism on them.

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

I really don't know what I meant anymore. I swear, some of you have a gift for seeing negativity. It never occurred to me that there would be objections to releasing the VMF, or that anyone would come up with a damned good reason not to.

I look at it this way Duncan. Stupid people will be stupid even if you connect all the dots for them. So, if someone submits a stupidly made map, and someone else copies it, then they are no worse off because they are still stupid.

I am not a very gifted mapper, but I did learn a lot from studying RMF files with HL1. I sometimes copied things but mostly, I made everything from scratch.

I am a perfect example of a stupid person, who learned. If another stupid person cannot... Who loses? They do.

BSP files do not teach much, if anything.

But... If the authors do not want to release the VMF, so be it.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Well, I'm in for it. Just give us more time than a month (I know, that seems enough for one room, but with all the detail ...)

Releasing the sources or not should be the user's choice. I wouldn't see any problem with it, because there are decompilers anyway. (I tested some out of curiosity, and - sadly enough if they are used wrongly - they are pretty good.)
If someone is determined enough to copy parts of your map, it will happen, eventually.

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:: Forceflow.be :: Nuclear Dawn developer

Just don't enforce it. It's a good idea otherwise, and I would do it - if I enter of course. :smile:

Mudanchee has just a higher priority, but yeah, I'm planning to release it's source (actually several stages of the map) alongside with an article. I just have to get it done though...

Oh, and .bsp's teach a lot - to the carefull eye. Not as much technical stuff perhaps, but they're great resources when it comes down to design things. :wink:

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

I am not seriously opposed to people retaining their goods but.. It just seems a shame to restrict a learning adventure, because you fear theft.

As I said, if only a bsp were required to teach, people could do that by playing online.

@ForceFlow... How about a general consensus, once its determined we will even have a competition?

A month seems fair, but so does two or three. As long as it has a respectable deadline. No 1/2 year crap...

And room = anything you want it to be as long as it has no exits.

I can assure you that if I make mine the way I want to, and thats a big if, it will be big...very big.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

In terms of dates for the competition, the exam season for me kicks off late May - end of June, and although I've got a month to go I need to be revising. Is anyone else in the same situation? The exam season in the UK is enormous...

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My site

Why wouldn't you just require each map to have some complex thing in it then? So instead of people learning things that are already in all the tutorials here, they learn something new.

The actual process of making a room and filling it with crap is not difficult and is well documented, so saying that is the sole purpose of this "competition" is a farce.

If however, you had a category dealing with complexity, innovation, and/or originality (I don't know if this was covered) it would drive the focus more on learning new techniques.

Furthermore, what is the grading criteria? Is each on a point scale? Do certain mistakes retract a given amount of points? E.G.: Two brushed are obviously overlapped, minus 1/2 a point. (You can round points at the end, by the way) ... but you can also put the whole thing out of ... like 100 or 150, so it reflects the map's merits better. The best example I can think of off hand would be Iron Chef's judging system. Some categories can be worth more than others, etc.

Define everything before it starts! The judging scale, amount of judges ... hell how're things going to be rounded? Round? Ceiling? Floor? (I would suggest Floor, actually)

I suppose these are some things to think about.

Also, once it's over. It'd make sense to only release the source from the winning maps. What if there's a map that is just a god awful room that does EVERYTHING wrong. Would you really want people learning from that??
Instead, I'd suggest, the top X% of maps ... like everyone who scored above x points, right, would go back (when they could) and implemented a text teaching type thing (along the lines of the lost coast) then release the source of the map without that. So, it fully covered everything they did.
I mean, if you want to teach people, do it right. Otherwise, it's just a competition. Make it a competition in teaching, or something as such.

I'd be interested in joining in, but I wont have time until the middle of June ... until the end of June. Like two weeks maybe. After that I have off and on time. So, I may or may not enter.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Every complex competition has stalled, and died. We, The people of Snarkpit, have had no competitions since HL1 and I feel its time to be overly simplistic. At least where a competition is concerned.

Look fellas, I know that you are picturing a room thats 12 feet by 12 feet or something, BUT I am imagining a room like a football stadium, with all the exits roped off. I envision a race track, where you are "restricted" to the pit zone, but can look longingly into the stands. I crave to see a map that looks like a baseball diamond, where you cannot get off the pitchers mound.

Don't restrict your goals to a boxy thing like your f**king living room.

Crono, I respect you more than you know, but your over complicating the concept into the grave, and I refuse to allow it to die because it needs to be more demanding. :cool:

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The best things in life, aren't things.

So, what is the point then?

You said you want this astronomical area ... then you want to teach people with it ... last time I checked, one thing you really don't want to do is build an incredibly large open area. Yet, you want to use it as a learning tool??

This is making little sense, to be honest.

The only thing someone can learn from a VMF is either brush construction or entity work ... which is why I suggest complexity. How intricate is the map, for example. You can have complex detail. Also, having a gauge of complexity doesn't mean the thing has to be complex. That should make sense.

All I suggested was an easy way to gauge the entries and then I gave some suggestions to make the overall effort more successful. If that's not what you want, so be it.

2 reasonable suggestions aren't going to complicate the thing into the ground. It appears that you just don't want to do the prep work :razz:

But, anyway, let me ask you then: What are you judging on? What is the actual purpose? To have a competition of design? Functionality? Or teaching?
As I said before, your concept of using a poorly running area for teaching is fundamentally flawed, but I can understand how ideas can be taken from it.

Be more specific. What is the point of all this. Enough wishy-washy "Well I want this that and the other thing even though they all conflict".

Make up your mind! :razz:

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Crono said:
Make up your mind! :razz:

You are making the 12x12 living room more appealing every moment. :wink:

I think that this is payback for all the razzing I have given you over the years.

All I ask is, do not over complicate this. The concept is open to interpretation restricted by only your imagination and no exits.

I see nothing more to add, or base this thing upon. You do, no one else does... Yet.

It has never mattered before whether you understood the context of one of my replies. Why should it matter now?

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Loco said:
In terms of dates for the competition, the exam season for me kicks off late May - end of June, and although I've got a month to go I need to be revising. Is anyone else in the same situation? The exam season in the UK is enormous...

same here. + i've got a music event that i'm organising in the beginning of May. Still, i'm willing to have a go at it (even though my experience with snarkpit competitions hasnt been the best one :razz: ).

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These words are my diaries screaming out loud

BlisTer said:
(even though my experience with snarkpit competitions hasnt been the best one :razz: ).

With only 13 votes and just 9 of those sure fired "Yes" I think thats the least of our worries.

Seems either people want to make mountains out of mole hills, or.... Some people just want every competition to fail.

To tell the truth, I am running out of ideas to motivate this site. If this doesn't work, I'm through trying.

Prefabland was, at its peak, had a massive amount of hits daily. Its now a defunct website. It died for many of the same reasons Snarkpit is experiencing recently. Think on that awhile.

I'm through trying to promote this idea. If its going to succeed, it needs another voice. I had hoped that mine alone would have been sufficient. But, I am beginning to suspect differently.

/ rant

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Count me in.

Damn double post.. grrrr

It seems that other than a few grumbles about its theme, the main complain/concern is "Time"

I propose that we begin this soon, to forestall its death, but concentrate on a deadline. A respectable deadline.

I understand that many cannot join until late May/early June, but that cannot be avoided. There are always going to be some who have time constraint issues and we cannot wait for 100% user accessibility.

So, with that said, I suggest that we begin, within a week and have a deadline somewhere around June 30th, but no later than July 31st.

I figure, that even those in school, can begin but work on it only marginally until their course work is complete. Yet, those with ideas that they want to implement will not have to wait overmuch.

Opinions?

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Orpheus said:
With only 13 votes and just 9 of those sure fired "Yes" I think thats the least of our worries.

heh, i wasnt expecting anyone to worry, i was just letting of some steam.. and possibly pointing out that if you want to draw lessons from the previous compo, dont neglect the fact that there might not be enough motivation amongst the judges to judge..

actually orph, you gain my respect for being one of the few around that has the motivation to organize this and boost a new mapping elan into snarkpit.

that's why i say bygones, and i'll try to find time to work on a room.

18 ppl said yes, none said no. if most of those 18 participate, along with a few lurkers, chances are we'll have enough material. now let's see if it can get judged :razz:

your timeline seems ok, so let's start :wink:

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These words are my diaries screaming out loud