For finding leaks in HL1, is pointfile 100% accurate?

OK, this is bugging the s**t out of me because I am sure that I am right but, am willing to hear (not necessarily listen to and heed) others stories on the subject.

I believe that using pointfile correctly, and with enough particles added that it will always find your leak. Assuming of course that you have only one and not several. (It may overlook a second or third leak for which you may assume its not 100% accurate erroneously)

Tell me your stories if you found a situation where pointfile failed you in finding your leak.

Disclaimer: If you feel that pointfile isn't 100% accurate, can you please give specific details of what you did, or didn't do to get this result. Please don't just say, it failed.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

It doesn't show all of them, but it will show "new" ones if you fix a leak and recompile and re-load the point file.

Of course it's accurate. The compiler knows there's a leak, so it makes of log of where it is. Hammer's implementation seems to show the traversal to the leak as well as give the nearest entity.

If it says there's a leak, there's a leak. Usually when people get frustrated with these they say it doesn't work, but there's some rules they're not aware of (like entities in the void)

It's 100% accurate because it's the same data that tells the compiler there's a problem in the first place. (Or is suppose to be)

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Load it in Hammer - don't bother using the old HL1 pointfile method.

Anyway, it's always been 100% correct for me. Sometimes my puny human eyes wouldn't see the leak, but sure enough, it's always there.

I've had one problem with it that never got resolved. My 3D skybox was supposedly leaking, after I surrounded it with brush walls, and checked if the origin was in the void. Neither helped. What eventually did help was placing a large brush where the pointfile was pointing.

I'm sure there's an explanation, and I'd like to hear it.

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Also change the texture of the dock. Docks are rarely tile. -Facepunch
As I Lay Dying

I am confused. We have 3 of us here who said "YES" yet we have 3 votes and only one "YES"

How is that possible?

Anyway, keep'em coming gents. I wanna settle this once and for all.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

It very rarely goes right through brushes (non-entity, of course). I don't know if that's an error of pointfile or BSP in general (mostly changing the brush the pointfile goes through fixes the leak, so it's hard to say).

I'd say BSP's leak-finding routine or brush-splitting isn't 100% accurate. But it's 99% accurate.

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Why snark works.

In HL1 I don't recall any problems with the pointfile, but the same can't be said for Source. Several times now one of my work mates and I have had pointfiles going straight through solid brushes completely unrelated to changes we have recently made, and had to rework geometry (not plugging leaks, just making changes that would normally be irrelevant like changing the brush layout for the same eventual result) in order to fix them. Quite often, you will make a change, recompile, and a new pointfile will be generated that goes straight through another, entirely seperate, perfectly legal brush. I've yet to find out the cause of these anomalies, but they are frustrating, and often the fix is something so ridiculously unrelated to leaks and the brushwork the pointfile was going through that you can't help but feel its simply buggy compile tools.

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

I Use Quark and it loads pointfiles but most of the time it looks like the entire map is leaking with the line.

I use the block method to find leaks it has yet to fail me :smile:

For me pointfiles are useless

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Why Do we all have to wear these ridiculous ties

<span style="color: white;">I've never used point files as far as I can remember, since the big block method is less of an hassle and easier to interpret(even when there are multiple leaks). Block method never fails and in some cases you can even leave the block where the leak was(for example the time I forgot to add roof to a room in cs_block).</span>

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''Everyone wades in s**t until they're competent enough to walk on it. Jesus style.''
Dystopia - Empires

I never really bother with pointfiles. Not only do they drain a hefty amount of resources on my PC, but in the time it takes for me to scan that huge-hunk-of-giberish line, I can generally find and plug the leak with Lep's big block method.

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Breaking the laws of mapping since 2003 and doing a damn fine job at it

I dunno how the big block method could be any faster than pointfile, since it obviously takes more iterations to find the leak. 9 times out of 10 pointfile leads me right to the leak. Every once in a while, I get something weird like Reno suggested due to some crazy construction error, which the big block method wouldn't have been any more useful for solving.

So, are you guys saying the pre-steam was 100% but post-steam its random?

dangit.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

pre and post steam doesn't matter, the compile tools only changed for the game, not the interface in which you play the game.

I've had less problems with the point files in hl2, to be honest. I have yet to encounter the "not really a problem, but it still shows up as one" leak. But I don't use it on a daily basis, nor is it part of my job.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

I hardly ever used pointfiles. I learned how to prevent leaks mostly, but besides that, I can usually find leaks by just looking through a map in Hammer (after deleting all entities and clip/hint brushes). And in those peculiar cases, the big block method does the trick. As long as you don't do a full recompile it's not too slow either.

But perhaps my ignorance of pointfiles is because I never loaded them into Hammer. Looking after them in Half-Life isn't all that effective imho. :smile:

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

Pointfiling in Hammer takes me all of like 5 seconds to find the problem. It's always been a snap, and a godsend so you don't have to do big block or in-game methods.

I have had once similar to what Reno's talking about with the original HL engine where it had a leak through a regular joe non-entity block that I hadn't touched in forever. I tried reshaping, resizing, etc. to no avail, just deleted and remade the exact same block and it magically was all better.

loading the pointfile in hammer to find normal leaks, as well as areaportal problems, is so much better than the old method of running the map, though i've had odd errors with both old and new.

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i eat paint

did i miss this, or does no one use the cordon tools?.. :eek:

and totally dependant on the situation, the point file is acurate enough....alternative methods are sometimes necessary jon....handy to have

Doc B... :dodgy:

Did they even have the cordon tool in HL1?

Anywho, this was a thread primarily to establish pointfiles accuracy. There are plenty of other methods, up to and including not creating holes, for finding them.

I was just curious to see how, or if anyone had any instances where the method wasn't 100% accurate.

So far, the jury seems out to lunch, since I cannot count those people who never use it, or used it incorrectly. Other than this new hole in a solid wall thing anyway.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

I've had a few troublesome issues with the cordon tool once, for HL (loosing the rest of my map somehow), so I'm not too happy with trying it again. Well, as long as you keep your .rmf files safe it shouldn't give any problems, as it just controls what goes into the .map file, but still.

Your grinny emoticon is funny btw, Brasso. :smile:

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

u know what.I have always wanted to know how to do the whole point file thing. How does it work anyway.

DANG

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Aaron's Stuff

This is strictly for HL1 aaron (This topic). If you have a leak in your
map you load it in the game and in the console type "pointfile" and it
should lead you to the general direction of the leak. If you want to
know how to do it in HL2 you compile your map (find a leak) and go
map-->load point file. Then follow the red line to the hole in the
map.

To replay to orph. Its not 100% accurate, but it does give you a
general idea of where the leak is (if your comp can run a leaked map).

In HL2 its a god-send tool.

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Posting And You

Hammre can only display a certain maximum number of points. If the pointfile has more than this, then random points are removed. Thus if you have a small leak near the edge of your wall, and the points near the edge are randomly removed, then the pointfile line in Hammre will go straight through the wall into the void instead of going through the gap.

In-game you can always avoid this problem by specifing more points.

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http://maze5.net

I've had the pointfile go in squares in the middle of an area that was part of the map

rather odd

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Signature? What signature!?