We've had people suggesting lots of ideas for this site to improve it or make things work in the way they should, and i've uncovered things i'd like to change or make more accessible for admin purposes.

Basically I think it would be a good idea to move "the site" to an archive, and place a new forum (ie phpBB or similar) on the top, and run it solely as a forum. Essentially it will just make the place a lot easier to run and update than it currently is - I'll be asking Lep about it soon.

Does anyone have objections about leaving behind the old Pit that we see now? It will all be backed up for archive purposes, but the interface, snarkmarks, profiles etc would be a thing of the past.

:sad:

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Aaron's Stuff

I'm all for it! In the long run, this will be necessary to keep the pit alive! We must adapt to the new games and features (and people) coming to our site.

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Blog: www.playingarchitecture.net
LinkedIn: Eric Lancon
Twitter:@Riven202

Yeah me to. I am for it.

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Aaron's Stuff

why would that be necessary? as encouraging as any update would be, i'm not sure i understand why you'd want to do this

To refresh the site more than anything Cassius - we've done it in the past of course, and it's always well received. Ultimately it would give greater control over content to myself and anyone else who wanted to contribute.

Personally I think the site should expand the reviewing side more and have more space to highlight "this weeks map" or "this weeks tutorial" etc. The content management would be a lot easier under a new infrastructure, and we could easily modify and add to it at later dates.

Ultimately the "old site" (ie this site) would be linked to for archival reference purposes, as many people have pointed out there is a good deal of quality content here that we can not afford to lose.

the pit has crusted over.....

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i eat paint

The extensive editing forms is the best thing this site had going for it. Would the update affect the ability/ease of using it?

Is it possible to directly import the old threads into the new ones? The text at least.

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Reality has become a commodity.

I'm not, personally, digging the idea. If you want to add content, that's cool. But wouldn't it be easier to upgrade the moderator status on select individuals?

Changing the forum, in particular, to phpBB would be a bad idea.

In general, there isn't anything wrong with the site, just some key pieces are missing. It'd be much more convenient for everyone if certain things were added, rather than moving the whole site around and changing absolutely everything about it. I mean, if that's the case, why not just create a new site from scratch and close the general forum here?

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

The problem is with giving more power over to more moderators, Crono - which I support, lies in the code. PHP errors and restrictive admin access means we can't function as if we were fully in control of the content.

If people want to retain the site design I will respect the wishes, but there still needs to be fairly radical changes to the internal gubbins to help the site expand and grow more.

I like this interface more than phpBB, but I guess if we can't fix the problems with it (and any which may arise in future) we don't have much choice.

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"If you talk at all during this lesson, you have detention. Do you understand?"

• My yr11 Economics teacher

Oh indeed, I like the interface too - the site is unique when placed side by side with other web layouts, and that can only be a good thing. The terminal headache from code and browser incompatibility issues is a great trial, however.

I would like to see a wiki section, my only hesitation in suggesting this is that there are already several good wikis on the web about Source/HL2 editing and it might be more trouble than it's worth.

As for 'rebooting' the site, so to speak, I think it probably should have been done a year or so ago. phpBB is a bit unsavory in my opinion, my first suggested alternative would be vBulletin, but I don't think it's free... a free alternative that I kind of like is SMF. /2cents

The way snarkmarks work is so well conceived I think it's a shame to see them go, but as I can't code my way out of a wet paper bag the best I can do is submit an open plea to anyone who thinks they could get something similar working once the site is up and running. Anything that rewards meaningful contribution over meaningless post-count +1 drivel.

Personally I think the site should expand the reviewing side more and have more space to highlight "this weeks map" or "this weeks tutorial" etc.

I agree wholeheartedly, some of the best sections of this site seem to be hidden in plain view, unfortunately. Having more highlights on the front page would be great.

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o

I suppose there would be both ups and downs with keeping the site as it is and starting from scratch. I love the Snarkmark system, so it would be nice to have something like that if the site is recreated. Couldn't tutorials, maps etc be transferred to the new system?

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What the Snarkpitters listen to!

I'm all for giving the Snarkpit a fresh start. I'm just not sure if I really "get" the plans about replacing it by a forum. Especially the "easier to improve" part. Wouldn't a switch to a standard forum layout require to completely scrap any functionality and organizational feature of the current pit (except for the basic forum structure)? Wouldn't it require to build any new feature from scratch?

A map of the week feature sounds good. But the majority of complaints about the current pit are little things. Like the java code not working for firefox. The re-compressed JPG uploadings... With a switch to a default phpBB those things wouldn't be improved, they'd be gone completely.

What I like about the Snarkpit, way above the snarkmarks, the interface, all the rating options etc. is the map directory. The fact that you have your maps neatly organized in one place. You can browse maps freely, you can have 3 official screenshots so you don't have to browse 404-error loaden screenshots threads. You have a standardized way of how map threads are named and created. You can quickly link to a map's profile, knowing the link will lead to a place where all this information is available. And if there should be a more central review section (which I would love to see), this could be a very handy feature.

I'd hate to see these features go. Similar is true for the editing forums/tutorials. A default phpBB thread simply isn't the same as a proper tutorial section.

If you actually plan to solve this, if you're planning on modifying a default board to offer powerful features like this, I'm all for it. I said it before, I'd be more than willing to invest some hours helping you, Gwil, or whoever is in charge re-building the Snarkpit. I'd love to see it happening.

It's just that I don't think a lame, default mapping board could replace the whole Snarkpit layout this easily. But I'm open. Maybe a more precise description of what the new forum should look like would help me to better understand.

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Why snark works.

Since phpBB is completely open, wouldn't it be possible to recreate most of Snarkpit's functionality on the known-stable codebase? I've seen a few sites that extend on phpBB and use it for things like the global login to the site, searching web sites, using a forum as the source of news posts, etc.

In short why not use phpBB and customize it to be just like the old Pit but built on top of a much more stable backend?

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This signature text is probably longer than my post.

In short why not use phpBB and customize it to be just like the old Pit but built on top of a much more stable backend?

I'm fairly sure this version of the Pit was originally written on top of phpBB.

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SourDough2.0 - With Strawberry Jam

The easy links between users - maps - and forum is what makes Snarkpit so unique compared to forum-based mapping sites. Don't lose this.

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These words are my diaries screaming out loud

I don't quite know what needs fixing and what the solution will bring, but rest assured I'll complain if I don't like the result! :biggrin:

The site makes for an easy easy frontend for any aspiring mapper to have a little minisite. I think if we cut that off, we'll lose the opportunity for new members entirely.

We're already losing the opportunity for new members as it is. Not that my opinion particularly matters, but I think a reboot would be beneficial and that we should focus back on the community / portfolio aspect, because the Valve Wiki and other sites already serve the tutorials / reference role a lot better than we do.

I would agree with that, but Gwil's suggestion, as I read it, didn't seem to indicate the portfolio aspect... If we drop this to just a forum with every other functionality of the site archived, we'll be doing ourselves no favors. Perhaps I need a better understanding of what this proposed change actually means.

Ii'll be sending Gwil the passwords and stuff for the site so that he can change things as his evil-overlord-self dictates, since I'm clearly not motivated to do much here at this point in my life :smile:

Wikis have clearly come into fashion since this site, and other tutorial ones before it, were written. So losing the tutorials would not necessarily a bad thing, but links to and discussion of articles elsewhere would still be a great help to people, especially when put into the higher context - e.g. "making a realistic room" instead of seperate articles on "glass" and "rotating doors". So I'd agree that area could use a complete overhaul.

You'd want to keep the profiles, map information, news and forums in some form as those are things you typically won't get under a Wiki system. Letting people publicise their maps is vital, though you might want to give them more control over their profile page.

And yeah, you'd probably want to upgrade the forum code. Good luck with that :razz:

Now to press gang some unwitting victims to begin the overhaul. Best find myself some e-chloroform!

You have my full support gwil. Just do me a favor: don't redesign the site after a night at the pub.

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Posting And You

:biggrin:

Luckily for you i'm not allowed at the pub (as much) of late because I have a stomach ulcer. What a life!

This will be interesting... :biggrin:

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What the Snarkpitters listen to!

Lep :smile:

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Aaron's Stuff

Just thought I'd pop my head in to say woohoo to change :smile: I like a lot about the site as it stands, but lets face it, we're not really going anywhere like this. A redesign is a chance to reinvigorate the place, even if we don't have all the features of the current design. I might be able to help out in places but don't have a great deal of time sadly. Keen to see what Gwil has in store for us :wink:

Oh and heya Lep, always nice to see you visit from time to time!

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

Don't expect too much action straight away, i've been feeling sorry for myself since Wednesday with a rather nasty flu meets the runs meets vomiting...