Decapitation Video

I won't go into detail, but I came upon this video by accident... I would not recommend any of you watch it. It left me speechless and I still dont really know what to say, I was hoping it was a hoax.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/11/iraq.main/

Its been all over the news on TV (Leave it on during the night), personaly it makes me sick (them beheading a POW), and even more sick that America didn't trade their 3 iraqi prisoners for this guy a few weeks back. I know its not our policy to trade POWs but this was a senceless death that we could have prevented. It is in my opinion that the reason they did this was because of the iraqi mistreatment. I really wish Bush would pull out of there, we've lost too many people for stopping a man who we thought had WMD (weapons of mass destruction).

omegaslayer4777 said:
Its been all over the news on TV (Leave it on during the night), personaly it makes me sick (them beheading a POW), and even more sick that America didn't trade their 3 iraqi prisoners for this guy a few weeks back. I know its not our policy to trade POWs but this was a senceless death that we could have prevented. It is in my opinion that the reason they did this was because of the iraqi mistreatment. I really wish Bush would pull out of there, we've lost too many people for stopping a man who we thought had WMD (weapons of mass destruction).

It's too late now. Pulling out would only send Iraq into chaos, especially if its over some as small and insignificant as one American's death. Honestly, while it's tragic, what would you expect to happen in the current climate in Iraq? Nobody would get hurt and everybody would be dancing among the flowers? And you can't give in to terrorist demands, as that will only encourage more terrorist action.

The Al-Qaeda people flew a couple of planes into the Trade Center and the Pentagon, and killed 3,000. This beheading incident is just Al-Qaeda being who they are. Leaving them alone is like saying, "yeah, go ahead, keep up the good work."

Pull out? Do you want the terrorists to keep going? Didn't think so.

There's something not right about that too. The photos were clearly not taken by "accident"; Linda England said she had orders from her superiors to pose like that. There's also something wrong with that video... It's a too obvious reaction to this provocation who's already suspect; so it's suspect too in my opinion; it looks like some kind of monstruous propaganda, but I have no idea to what it aims for... only the sad actors are innocent people who lose their lives

This is what war is like. To say this is unheard of and blasphemous is ignorant. (Not to say any of you have, just stating in general.) But I've found that in watching many interviews and other movies of US/Coalition soldiers they haven't quite grasped the concept of a real war. While one side are battle hardened people ready to die on a whim for their country/cause the other side is merely an American citizen who really is only there for the financial and education opportunities that are given to soldiers, they've sort of forgotten that the purposes of war are to kill and be killed. It's too much of a "video game" mentality.

I realise that some people see past this, but watching so much of Coalition soldiers wondering why they're being shot still even though they "rescued" Iraq already boggles my mind to no avail. I mean seriously, look behind you...does the country look like it's in a better state? Wake up and smell the debris.

Yak_Fighter said:

omegaslayer4777 said:
Its been all over the news on TV (Leave it on during the night), personaly it makes me sick (them beheading a POW), and even more sick that America didn't trade their 3 iraqi prisoners for this guy a few weeks back. I know its not our policy to trade POWs but this was a senceless death that we could have prevented. It is in my opinion that the reason they did this was because of the iraqi mistreatment. I really wish Bush would pull out of there, we've lost too many people for stopping a man who we thought had WMD (weapons of mass destruction).

It's too late now. Pulling out would only send Iraq into chaos, especially if its over some as small and insignificant as one American's death. Honestly, while it's tragic, what would you expect to happen in the current climate in Iraq? Nobody would get hurt and everybody would be dancing among the flowers? And you can't give in to terrorist demands, as that will only encourage more terrorist action.

What Yak said - pulling out would be bad for all parties concerned. The country could have been in a better state if the war had been planned properly (borders/ammo dumps secured etc), but that's in the past now. The way to look at it is how can they remedy the damage they have done and are doing by being there.

Personally I support the theoretical plan of a quick transition to a UN backed Islam/Muslim states "occupation" force - but that's as likely to happen as world peace.

On a side note, if anyone has been following the war with some level of interest, do they know why Nick Berg was arrested once by Iraqi police, then by the FBI? Then he was released, "went on the run" (?) and was captured by these people.*

TBH I don't know whats worse - the decapitation or Lyndie England openly laughing and showing an utter lack of remorse on international television ^_^

Kain; propaganda is usually staged/overdramatised/falsified information/images designed to promote and/or decieve people - I don't think American "propaganda" (if it exists) would have US troops beating and degrading PoW's :razz: Also, Nick Berg lived outside of the "rules" of war, he was a civilian contractor, not a soldier. Terrorists haven't played by the rules for many years, without wanting to sound like a bitter non-US person, we've seen this horror a hundred times before in our other respective nations of the world :sad:

• • anyone? not picking holes, i was just left baffled/bemused by the inclusion of these details in the reports on Mr Berg by several media sources..

Bombs can send people into far more pieces than decapitation does...

I don't care what hurts most, bombs or decapitation. Both of them make me sick.

Also, this is another example of "selective" information being put forward via the press/media. The US already denounced the rights of so called "terrorists" and flouted the Geneva Convention once themselves - Afghanistan, and Camp X-Ray anybody?

Well let's hope they've how to occupy a country for next time they try to get rid of a ruthless dictator to save the people. /sarcasm

And yes, the video is horrible. I think 'hacked off his head' is more appropriate than CNNs description, and to be honest if the people that did this were the ones being humiliated/tortured in Iraqi photos I couldn't care less...

Heh, I don't have a problem with what theyve done - more the fact theyve rushed into the situation without pre-planning for it - more Iraqi, UK, US, Italian, Spanish lives, and more of the coalitions image could have been saved if they hadn't say, left arms dumps unattended or unguarded for 3 months (!)

Groups such as Ansar Al Islam et al could have been stopped, or at least thwarted/slowed in their campaign of terror - who knows, maybe Nick Berg wouldnt have died?

but yes, there is no excuse for this behaviour, agreed.

ignoring the berg incident for the moment.. i am beginning to suspect subterfuge in this whole prison abuse ordeal..

i cannot put my finger on it yet but consider...

police in the US, know they have cameras on their cars.. seldom do they abuse people any more, yes it still happens, but they get burned for it..

who would photograph cruelty like this and be sane? i am beginning to feel, its the people who did not support the war, and are hell bent to discredit the US and its supporting countries.. you gotta admit, if thats not the plan, its working anyways.

many of the photo's i have seen, look staged.. a big hoax.

let us hope, that if this is the case, that the people involved are charged with traitorous actions against the nation, and summarily imprisoned.. considering that being a traitor used to be a death penalty, prison would be letting them off light.

i hope i am wrong, but.. its very rare :sad:

Well, the UK 'version' has been practically debunked with the photos basically proven to be faked. Orph, I would probably agree with your 'conspiracy' theory about many of these photos/films being staged for anti-war reasons, although I don't doubt for a minute that there have been human rights violations in prisons in Iraq anyway... Anyway, I'd still like to know just why these people were arrested and put in prison there in the first place, I suppose they're all innocent of trying to blow up hotels with bombs/rocket launchers and the like. :/

The photos just smack of stupidity on the part of the soldiers involved to me, but used effectively by the anti-war camp to promote their messages.

Some certainly do look a lot more dubious than others (the UK ones are fake as you can get), particuarly the ones we have seen after the Lyndie England ones - dodgy cropping, lack of background detail etc..

I think a few photos were taken by less intelligent members of the army, found or revealed by people wishing to discredit the war justification - and then after that some people have jumped on the bandwagon and staged a lot of the newer photos.

If that's true then it certainly is sick, shocking and indeed traitorous to their country/countries if these people would jeopardise the lives of soldiers out there in combat, just for their own motives or a quick buck :sad:

of course there is the very real possibility that something truly evil took place, and this is an attempt to cover it over..

it wouldn't be the first time someone attempted to discredit real events with staged ones..

i am hopeful, but usually the truly evil people get away with it.

I heard on the news that officials were looking at another 1800 possible photos of abuse of Iraqi prisoners - WTF!? I could understand how a few might happen, and a few fakes, but THAT MANY? I just hope I heard it wrong.

And all this crap FOR WHAT?! Because some idiot pen-pusher in Washington
heard tales of NBC weapons in Iraq?And what about those poor iraqian POWs who were
tortured for pure enjoyment by american soilders?!The american army is no better than their iraqie enemies. Shame!!!

Man, when we first heard about this it were a few examples of a few soldiers. And the politicians were saying this isnt an example of the US military. But now im a tad dubious. I mean 2000 photos of abuse. Considering most wouldnt be captured on candid camera this kinda scares me.

-BB

esechre said:
Man, when we first heard about this it were a few examples of a few soldiers. And the politicians were saying this isnt an example of the US military. But now im a tad dubious. I mean 2000 photos of abuse. Considering most wouldnt be captured on candid camera this kinda scares me.

-BB

think about what you just typed.. 2000 pics=dubious

The Mirror (The UK Tabloid that produced the photos) have admitted they are fake, and the commitee has fired The Mirror editor. They have also apologised for the incident. While we all knew this in the first place, it's nice to see the man responsible sacked. It's not going to make up for the bad reputation it's put on the British armed forces though.

I don't really think this put a bad reputation on them at all, actually. Quite glad they sacked Piers Moron though, huzzah for s**t-paper-bashing!

It certainly gave terrorist groups to go after UK targets more than ever now, they probably won't even care if they're fake.

They had to get the talibanoes started, didnt they !?!"Lets just poke the stupid talibans, they is dumb and wont fight back."

The worst thing is, surely common sense dictates, revealing pictures like this (Faked or otherwise) will stir up hatred in Iraq, and hence cause the needless death of more soldiers. Why not hand them over to military police or the government so they can deal with it. (Which they would have to if media had copies of the evidence)

Personally I think this sort of media behaviour is Akin in to manslaughter.

Gav said:
Personally I think this sort of media behavior is Akin in to manslaughter.

it will never be viewed as such though, case in point, the battery charger cord for a cell phone has no logical reason to be over 6 or so inches long, but it is made several feet long because?? to allow people to use it on extended conversations while driving..

this cord, contributes to the maiming and killing of people daily, because it promote longer conversations while driving..

the makers of this cord will never come to trial.

they now have an apparatus that when attached to a laptop, hangs from the steering wheel of a car, thus allowing for ease of use while.... driving :sad: the maker of this device will prolly never see the inside of a courtroom either.

they now have dual-screen DVD players, that attach to the sun visor of your automobile... exactly how is this a good thing?? the maker will prolly never go to trial either.

see my trend?? other than the car/auto association i mean?? people whom cause death through manufactured items.. be it photo's or electronics seldom get charged.

of course there are exceptions.. people assume that negligent manufacturers are at fault and sue them frequently.. but the DVD player, the cell cord and the laptop hanger are not defective, they do exactly what they were designed to do :rolleyes:

the people who made these photo's will either never be caught, or never suffer the full penalty if caught.. the humanitarians among us will not allow it.. the same assholes who feel the death penalty is too strong a fine for murderers will get them off

"Media behaviour"? They claim that they didn't know the photos were fake and even though it was the Mirror I'm inclined to believe them; yes they should have checked the photos were authentic first with the MoD, but whether you like it or not this stuff is going on anyway, real photos or not. Would you not be as bothered if this stuff was going on but the government was covering it up?!

Just had a thought: those people who published that decapitation video indirectly raised Bush's chances to be re-elected.

Andrei said:
Just had a thought: those people who published that decapitation video indirectly raised Bush's chances to be re-elected.

i doubt it, there are to many of us who believe in cause=effect

if he had not waged this war, the guy would still be doing his yuppie stuff at home..

actually i have not followed the decapitation story very close, but it was my understanding that, his silly humanitarian stuff was what got him killed..

he should have waited to volunteer till the area was more stable... civilians do not belong there yet.. his own life style and beliefs got him killed more than anything else..

assuming, what i heard had any merit.. as i said i have not followed it very close.

You should see the conspiracy theories on this event.

I don't buy into that sort of thing, nor do I see evidence at this point to believe that he was actually killed by US operatives (as is claimed), but there are some very interesting inconsistencies and errors that have no good explanation.

Again, I don't buy the all-out conspiracy theories, but with the timing, certain details of the video, and the timeline leading up to it, there are many questions yet to be answered.

i've not watched the vid of the beheading. its the sort of image i can live without. anyone that does watch it, i would ask, 'why? this isn't the first time an inocent man has been beheaded.' it happens all the time in some of the 'friendly'(oil rich) arab countries, and is all but ignored by the rest of the world (us). why all the fuss now?

and about some of the abuse pics being staged as anti-war propaganda. does anyone honestly believe that the pics would make several million armed arabs any less inclined to have a go? i'd say anti-war images would be more of a 'dead babies from each side in the same grave' sort of thing, not a 'look, we've got your sons/cousins/brothers testicles wired to the mains' one.

This situation is very mis-understood, from both sides of the looking glass.

I wonder if anyone really has a good understanding on what life is like in some of those Middle Eastern countries. And no, they're not the "s**t-hole part of this Earth" as one of my friends put it the other day.

Being half-Arab, I take some of this stuff personally. However, neither side in this 'war' is correct. The problem comes from the US being mostly an unreligious nation (taking that religion is an option). It isn't there. You're raised with it; there is no other way of thinking ... its like how we believe that the Earth is round. I'm not saying they're wrong, because no one can decide that.
But this ideal is twisted by the government (US and Arab) as well as terrorists. I guarantee you that 99.9% of 'Al Queda' doesn't want to fight. They feel that they're important since they believe they're doing God's work. These people don't have amazing spectacular lives (because of their government, mostly). This 'debate' will not be solved for many years. I'm not saying any sort of war will last that long, but even if we established a democratic government there. There will still be the men who want power causing terrorism, twisting people through religion. I don't think people have any idea how trusting people are over there (the average citizen that is).

This is a debate that is far too complicated to make a simple conclusion. There is no REAL right or wrong for either side, but for individual people on either side.

It just keeps getting beter and better...

It sure does. [url]http://www.holocausthumanity.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=32 [/url]
http://www.prisonplanet.tv/audio/051404watson.htm

That first link brings up some amazing arguments. Definatly a must-read for anyone who has been following this story.

am i the only person whom thinks this pic was edited??

the light source is off, she has shadow, he doesn't.. his pubic region is blurry, but her face is not ??

White plastic chair? Yellow walls? Fat terrorists? Why would he claim to have killed Berg yet worn a mask? To perhaps get the credit, and hide from Americans what he currently looks like, perhaps? I'm sure there is a lot more going on than we know, but this guy's arguements are a bit lame.

And Orph, that pic looks like it's been simply brightened or something, and blurry bits applied by the media/whoever for decency, why should they cover her face too?

OMG FAT TERRORISTS!!!!!!1111111
THIS CANT BE TRUE!!!!11111 ITS FAKE!1!1!1!1!1!