HL2 mapping vs. HL1 mapping

Obviously, the new tools, fancy effects, higher poly counts..etc, are great. I LOVE being able to really embellish my map with the more subtle details that HL2 allows. I understand why people are reacting to props the way they do (the negative reactions)... they are already being whored out. Look at the steampowered forums, and you will see tons of "NEW MAP!!" threads that showcase such abominations. Now, everyone starts somewhere; god knows my first map was a scary thing to behold....so I'm not really trying to knock the new mappers here. The problem with props, is that it makes it that much harder for new mappers to really expand their creative eye and think about the more subtle, yet important aspects of design; form, efficiency, flow, composition.

Now, I am mainly talking about the visual aspects of mapping here. Working with the somewhat limited abilities of the HL1 engine forced us to pay close attention to the most basic problems: trying to escape 'boxism' and 'doom' texture tiling.

Now, with all the spinkey graphics to throw around, these nuances of design are masked behind accessible, 'precooked' models and effects.. That's where we come in 'us the children of HL1 mapping :razz: ', and spread these bits of wisdom around. We need to drill into their heads the importance of simple yet bold architecture, solid flowing layouts, dramatic lighting....etc. If these lessons are learned, the detailed props, and fancy water will fall into the right places, instead of becoming the centerpeice for bad maps.

We need to drill into their heads the importance of simple yet bold architecture, solid flowing layouts, dramatic lighting....etc. If these lessons are learned, the detailed props, and fancy water will fall into the right places, instead of becoming the centerpeice for bad maps.

Well said. My thoughts exactly.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting habboi</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

The great orph wrong :O

</DIV></DIV>

LOL.. i just got it.. i had to go back to my previous reply though.

Finger is right. I remember seing HL1 maps that were made COMPLETELY out or prefabs that were downloaded from the net or that came with worldcraft. It was like someone just took a box and filled it with the prefabs. Now, there are no prefabs made with brushes and they're made as models instead. So, naturally it'll be the same situation only with higher r-speeds. :rolleyes: We can count on lots of "new maps" that have surprisingly similar docks and rock formations in them. We can also count on the fact that all the GOOD mappers in the community will use them sparingly and spend more time on thier architecture and not really have to worry about whether all 20 of thier dock-props are lined up properly.

this is just another one of those "come full circle" topics.

ever once in a while we seem obligated to post our views on what separates the "men from the boys" in mapping quality.

finger nails it again, but his reply is going to be so since anyone whom knows the difference between their ass and a hole in the ground would.

what i find refreshing however, is the fact that it really is still the best advice.

/me once again bows to the masters and their craft.

Three big problems with HL2 mapping:

- Converting textures is a bitch. I have read multiple tutorials and still can't pull it off. And I can't figure out for the life of me how to make a damned bump map.

- No modelling program out of the box. func_physbox will work fine up to a point, but eventually custom maps, especially custom maps for mods, will require props with complex structures/skins.

- The HL2 default wad is awkward. They're great textures, yes, but it feels strange making the architecture of the level around the architecture of another man's textures.

About Unreal versus HL2 mapping: while I'm inclined to suggest that anyone who prefers Unreal mapping is a cracksmoker, I (begrudgingly) realize that either engine caters to a different type of mapper. Coming out of HL1 editing, I am quite attached to making complex, brush-based architecture for every part of the map; I imagine a Unreal mapper would have a different mindset, though, as I have never been one, I wouldn't know quite what that is.

(Unreal is still for cracksmokers.)

Yeah, I'm in the dark with the texture creation too. It's like "okay,
make a .vmf or whatever the hell...here's the format." Er, yeah, but
what does that mean?

Gorbachev, your avatar is so hott... lol

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Gorbachev, your avatar is so hott... lol
</DIV></DIV>

whispers

you are making Missouri look bad, thats at least 3 avatars you have gotten a woody over.
/runs

I'm just messing around, I say that to ALL users who have a female of any type in thier avatar. Have you ever noticed that Finger's [color=white]avatar looks like a messed-up, alien version of ForceFlow's?[/color] Just imagine that finger's says "Evil never looked so damn good." under it. see? see?

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>I'm just messing around, I say that to ALL users who have a female of any type in thier avatar. Have you ever noticed that Finger's [color=white]avatar looks like a messed-up, alien version of ForceFlow's?[/color] Just imagine that finger's says "Evil never looked so damn good." under it. see? see? </DIV></DIV>

.. :rolleyes:

dude, blue can mean sarcasm or humor. in this case it was the latter. if you feel the need to defend your position, maybe i should re-evaluate my comment.

i dunno if you remember or heard, but i view avatars a bit differently than most. to me they are an extension of your online personality. which in most cases is completely different than your real life personality. in other words, when i look at an avatar, i judge the person against it. if its a dweeb avatar, there is a chance i will think the person is too. not the most logical way, but its been very accurate so far.
anywho's, it was a joke, if you pop woody's over cartoon females.. well thats better than cartoon males i suppose.

I was not really defending myself, I was just messnig around again. I know you were joking. BUT, did u notice the Finger/ForceFlow connection yet?!?! DID YOU?!

[edit] what do you think of MY avatar?

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[edit] what do you think of MY avatar?

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i reserve the right for a future decision. right now, your avatar is one used by people new to the mapping scene, i do not look at it and see "you" yet.

well, dang. I don't wanna seem new to the mapping scene. I'm OLD to the mapping scene. I was mapping for QUAKE and DOOM. That's gotta count for something.

I will invest in a new avatar soon.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

I will invest in a new avatar soon.

</DIV></DIV>
you don't need to do anything on my account.

I am going to make one in Hammer. I was gonna anyway :biggrin: .

Your avatar scares me, Nickelplate. It makes me think the G-Man
is right behind me ready to spray boogers all over me. It's like
my worst nightmares.

Yo Nickleplate, dog - you crazy.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Cassius</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Yo Nickleplate, dog - you crazy.</DIV></DIV>

Remember Cass, in Missouri there is a time honored saying "Its all pink on the inside, its not my fault its hooked to sissy"
/runs

wow... the purity of the topics is really hard to maintainm ain't it? we need some Combine officers as moderators here... like Panzerox from HL-Improvement... that dude is a fricking iron-fisted dictator

And now the topic shifts to foreign dictators with strange accents. But that's half the fun for reading these forum threads. It's like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting satchmo</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>. It's like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get. </DIV></DIV>
surprisingly though, most of us are like peas and carrots. at least i consider it so. in fact, two of my closest, never show up anymore. i miss korn and gollum.