SPLA Map

AWESOME!.. Heh.. well I have alot of that fixed.. Like the box the stuff is pouring into, along the bottom its all one solid mass now.

I also have done alot of null textureing on the map, and raised some of the stuff an inch off the ground..

I have also removed the func_water from the lava and just left it plain. I went and read up on a few sites to help lower r_speeds and compile times.

I will add the new download and see what you think of that.. But thanks Tracer.. I think it looks purdy!

($)

P.S. Tracer after the netvis.exe is done, what do I do then? Do I run Hammer Compiler with out the vis?

ok, good news guys...things are ok where im at, however everything around me is going up in flames. well just incase its not too late, i was wondering if i could still be apart of the team. are we expected to have a final product as of NOV 1st? im a bit behind after all this so...

money: pic 5, pick that object up 1unit off the ground, and turn that sign (and all others) into a func_wall. also, any other objects such as your molten carriges should be raised 1unit off the ground. DOH! im too late :wink:

i love it money...great job on the molten metal texture :wink: lookin good.

P.S. is the null texture in hl.wad? i cant find it...lol

It's in zhlt.wad... comes with the zoners tools.

MoneyShot, that map looks pretty good, but it's a crime against the game engine :razz: The r_speeds are awful. You can start by making the small, complex objects into func_walls.

For example, look at the "dipper-boxes" (one pours lava, the other is inactive). Even if this is not touching the ground, you can see that it is splitting up itself into a horrible mess of polygons. Remember that every polygon, no matter how small, adds to your wpoly reading (and for good reason too - a big polygon is no easier to render than a little one).

Yikes, func_wall some stuff already :razz:

Heh, thanks guys.. Yeah I had some stuff func_wall, but was told that the func_wall can add to my wpoly so I removed most of them.

The images your looking at are from an old version of the map. I have already fixed most of what you see there. and will go back and func_wall the signs.. should I func_wall the dipper boxes?

Also should the box the molten metal is being poured into be raised a bit off the ground too?

( What is Vis_blocking ? )

($)

P.S. Thanks everyone, hearing good things, and good imput on what to do, made my night. Makes it worth it.

P.S.S the null texture is also in my lava.wad included with the download of the zip on page 13 of this thread.

Yes, definitely func_wall the dipper boxes! Func_walls do contribute to your wpoly, but then if you make them world brushes they will contribute even more!

Vis-blocking is where you completely block the line-of-sight from one area to another. Standard methods include sharp bends in corridors etc. Without this, the VIS program will have a hard time optimising your level (which is why it takes so damn long - and it's also getting confused by trying to include those complex dipper shapes in its calculations). LEARN WHAT IT MEANS AND HOW TO USE IT!

You don't need to raise a brush off the ground if it is a func_wall. If it's not, then raising it off the ground will stop it splitting up the floor.

Generally, make fine detail (especially anything with lots of non-axial polygons) into func_walls, and leave the larger/simpler brushes alone.

Func_wall

• Cannot block visibility, and so is ignored by the VIS program calculations
• Can sometimes be seen from other parts of the level, especially if it [the func_wall] is huge
• Does not cause any face splitting
• Cannot be used to "seal" the level from the void. Using them as outside walls will create a leak.

World brush

• Does block visibility
• Will cause face splitting on any other world brush that it touches
• Must be used to seal your level from the void.

Thanks God of boulders! :biggrin:

Now that I know, Ill be sure to do just that Gollum. I kinda do that anyways. I just was not sure if Vis Blocking was a special func, or a special way of setting a func_wall.

But now I understand its the layout of what the engine can and can not see, by turning halls and blocking its line of site from one area to the next. But as you can see in this room I made it would be a tad difficult to get the same feel with walls blocking everything.

I hope all this will help the compile times as well. Thanks again to everyone for your help and advice!

($)

sighs

most of this page belongs in "editing" :sad:

all this knowledge will be gone now.

nice theme, hard to pull off tho..

Me like. Dare say you could use models for a lot of that stuff though. My areas just a thing, whereas this seems to have some sort of coherent theme, even if it is making hte HL engine cry like a little girl at present. Might find some time today to work on my map though..

lmao, too much to read... :razz: The pics look great. But the wireframe shots hurt. With proper use of func_wall and 1 unit gaps, you can elimimate probably around 100 to 200 wploys.

Ok here's an updated shot of my area. I changed the water texture as well as the scrolling waterfall texture. I also added a little more light around the edges, changed the entire rock texture and did a little cosmetic work on the stairs.

Your blue water looks a little bright, the waterfalls seem to come from nowhere. Thats all I can complain about. Post some screens of your stairs too, I`d like to see 'em

I really like the effect of your new rock texture (might be helped by the new lighting).

White water falling into a blue pool looks odd, and the "centrepiece" just looks tacky, to be honest :sad: Attempting to make organic shapes in Hammer is often frustrating, since neither the editor nor the game is designed to cope with them! A model might look good though.

Of course, it depends on what you want to make - if it's supposed to be a sculpture, then that's believable. But it's unconvincing as animals.

I'm gonna take the water in the pool and greyscale it, so that should take care of the color clashes.

The "snakes" were just put there as an after-thought. I think they'd look better above the falls on an empty pedastel I have up there, with perhaps a few light spots on them...and yeah I sure wish it would be easier to make statues n stuff with hammer.

Also the waterfalls do come from small gaps in the rock. You just can't see the gaps from this angle..also, I pulled the pool water back a bit up there because it was visible through the waterfall...and it looked real bad...so really, it would be hard to tell where the water was coming from unless there was a direct light on it...but I don't think I'm gonna make that something Player needs to see.

I'm seeing alot of different ideas in everyone's maps, and I think that's cool...but it's gonna be a bitch to try and connect all of these unique rooms. Perhaps, instead of Wild Card having the responsility of connecting all the rooms, why don't the people who are connected connect the rooms? We could do that thru PM's here or on whatever chat program or even email. What ya think of that?

its probably best you look at all the areas once they are done & then decide who's will connect to who's with a nice transfer & then do that & then work someone elses map onto that one & so on.

MoneyShot said:
P.S. Tracer after the netvis.exe is done, what do I do then? Do I run Hammer Compiler with out the vis?

I guess I really should include this in that tut. you run netvis in place of hlvis, so the compile order becomes csg, bsp, netvis, rad. if you get the ZHLT complie GUI you can set it all up nicely, but before I had that, I just ran the final two steps (netvis, and rad) manualy from the DOS command prompt.

i dont mean to butt in, but i will anyway. :smile:

i realise that this project is in much more capable hands than mine, but i've seen a few people posting concerns about how/when to go about joining the pieces together, and i'd like to make a suggestion.

everyone sends there basic rooms to WC now, so he could arrange them on the grid and create a skeleton blueprint kind of thing. then he could post it back to all concerned. once everyone knew where, in relation to their own work, everyone else's was, the connection/corridors etc could be arranged much more collectivly than the current plan seems to allow. and it would save WC from sooo much pressure trying to do it on his own at the end, when everyone wanted to see how their bit fitted in, and kept sending him hate-mail saying bad stuff about how he was taking too long and other bad stuff that i can't say here........

right, i seem to have lost track somewhere, so i'll butt out now

<!--StartFragment -->

Just build your sections individually. If you've seen screens of a section next to yours, you can try and incorporate a few features. When you guys are satisfied with your sections, email them to me (the .RMF's). Once I have a few sections, I can start the centerpiece. Then, when I have all the sections, I'll email the map from one mapper to the next so you can modify your sections and work on connectivity.

/me reads fishy's post. T'is a good idea actually. And it would make things go faster and easier. Ok, guys, send me what you've got so far so I can have a lookey see. But keep working on your sections.

EMAIL ME WHAT YOU HAVE SO FAR
(not yelling, just making sure you guys read it:))

Ok with 100 - 200 polys removed, some of y map will still be over the 1000 limit, from your pistures Tracer.

What should I do? Should I go in and apply some vis blocking? take stuff out, lower the roof in areas? what do you all suggest?

Should I go back to the drawing board and redo my section?

Besides 2 days and it still has not been compiled.. so I am frusterated right now.

($)

Hey MoneyShot, points above ^ lemme have a look. Perhaps I can figure something out.

I should have mentioned that the complie was done with -fast enabled on vis, so those r's may not be representitive of what the end results will be. I don't really know what effects the -fast command has though, so I'm not sure.

probably if you were to seperate your area into two smaller ones you'f be fine...

2 days huh? what are the specs of the machiene you are compiling with?

Guys, read what I have said above.

e-mail me (topgun832@hotmail.com) what you have so far, .RMF and any .WAD's (or a download link). I want to see what you have done so far and as well, it will give me ideas, and possibly allow me to start the centerpiece.

I am running a AMD Athalon 1.2 Ghz with 640 Ram, and a GeForce FX 5800 Ultra with 256 on board.

I am in the process of building a new machine.. but I may scratch it to build a 64 Mobo machine, when I see a OS that can handle 64 bit processing. I hear Windows is currently making an OS for 64 bit computing.

($)

Wild Card the rmf, wad are on thier way to you now.

let me say this once more for those not picking up on my hints.

this thread contains to many editing questions, bypassing the process, even when its unintentional, is still bypassing the system..

if you have editing questions, PLEASE post them in the proper place, following the proper procedure..

wanders back to dark hole

I see you point Orph, but it is much easier to keep all SPLA realted talk in pne place...

Sheesh Money! why is the compile taking so long? I run an old P-III 1 ghz w/ 256 MB RAM. with vis on -fast the whole compile took only 8 min!!

a peek at my section under construcyion...needs to be lit and cut a bit....

[simg]http://www.snarkpit.com/pits/dr brasso/alex_ns_build_210000.jpg[/simg]

[simg]http://www.snarkpit.com/pits/dr brasso/alex_ns_build_210001.jpg[/simg]

[simg]http://www.snarkpit.com/pits/dr brasso/alex_ns_build_210002.jpg[/simg]

it will ultimately be in hl format, i was just felling a bit inspired last night.... :heee: sue me....

Dr Brasso... :dodgy:

I hate you Dr Brasso, I LOVE IT! thats sweet! When I say I hate you, I mean I am jelouse. =) That is some niffty looking mappin man. I feel so ashamed now for submitting my section now.. =(

I love the look of Unreal, and Quake and what not.. I have always wanted to map like that, but they tend to start to look like CounterStrike..

This looks very nice man. You have inspired me to try harder to make a UT, Quake map. Im gonna try. After I get my 3 other projects done. de_piratescove, de_industrial, and my Lasertag map.

($)

( Reply to that below this post )Yes I know Gollum.. I was saying it looks like something from Unreal or Quake. I know I didn't say Like above, but I can tell its a HL game, I only look stupid. =) Heh..

Orph, can also map like that real well. The kinda Sci-Fi spacey look..

Doc Brasso's map screens look to come from Natural Selection, not Unreal or Quake :heee:

Regardless, they look pretty good :smile:

Ooooh very nice Brasso, I'm loving the skylight and curvy staircase, very sexy :smile:

hehe, I cant see a thing except the blue on this monitor, me will switch to my other computer and have a lookey see :razz:

mumbles
why did my monitor have to blow up... Stupid 13inch cant display anything, its too dark

ahh, much better, lol, I can see something. It's looking very nice there Doc Brasso

Tracer Bullet said:
I see you point Orph, but it is much easier to keep all SPLA realted talk in pne place...

the original pitcrew thread was looks around for verification 80 pages long??

it remained true almost 95% with little corruption, but the technical questions still went to the editing thread, i understand your trepidations guys, but the search option won't look up here in "maps"

keep your editing question IN EDITING..

thank you gents......i really need to get the lighting sorted so the textures stand out a bit....my first one with all custom textures... :heee:

Dr Brasso.... :dodgy:

Dr Brasso said:
thank you gents......i really need to get the lighting sorted so the textures stand out a bit....my first one with all custom textures... :heee:

Dr Brasso.... :dodgy:

i bet this pit map will be HUGE when done :smile:

hey brassman, holler at me if you want some input on a personal level :smile:

by all means orph....you know me man.....let er rip...

Dr Brasso... :dodgy:

Dr Brasso said:
by all means orph....you know me man.....let er rip...

Dr Brasso... :dodgy:

i meant, send me the bsp and i will give a close looksee.. pics don't do it well for me..

ahhhhhhh..........silly me....what was i thinking.....roflmao

give me a minute to sanitize it.... :heee:

Dr Brasso... :dodgy:

i really need to do something with that damn avatar too....starting to irritate the hell outta me....

shiesse.....i need to recompile it man.....ill send you the bsp after while......to yer pit addy or the drs one?

Doc B... :dodgy:

Dr Brasso said:
shiesse.....i need to recompile it man.....ill send you the bsp after while......to yer pit addy or the drs one?

Doc B... :dodgy:

if its under a meg

drs_orpheus@msn.com

if its under 25 megs

guthrun@sbcglobal.net

Do you guys on the team think we should let anyone outside the team see our maps before the whole map is a beta?

I mean, it's a nice gesture that other people are giving comments and suggestions on the screenshots, and I appreciate that, but don't ya think we ought to keep the actual bsps and rmfs inside the team..and not let anyone see our work until it's in completed beta form?

I really think we ought to just keep the maps themselves in only the team's eyes and posession until beta. If we let just anyone see the maps beforehand, then that may break down the structure of the team.

What you guys think?

I'm speaking from experience here, too. I've run three single player mod teams...and the third got real bad because people outside the team wanted to see the work before it was "beta." So much of it got out that the team fell apart, literally....even tho we all had agreed beforehand not to show anyone anything til beta...except screenshots.

I think you'll find it helpful to let 'outside' people see them maps - even if it's only a select few. Different eyes pick up on things you wouldn't notice yourself - be it texture mis-alignments, gameplay issues etc.

I'm not saying give your maps out to anyone that asks, just people who's opinions you value :smile:

few outside snarkpit have the cohesion that we have established here, i have seen failures too, but it was not directly the results of the beta testers, but more the close minded,untrustworthy, and/or in flexible nature of incompatible mappers and their techniques..

i offer my advice at any stage of the maps life, i force my opinions on no one, if i don't see the map till its put together, so be it, BUT when it calls for a major refit, because a section sucks, well thats an issue the author will have to deal with at that time.. any author.

maps fail from lack of feedback, they never fail because of it..

we, in the original pitcrew map, released compiled versions of the bsp from the beginning, but in pieces? not often, some of the participants opted not to.. BUT they were new to snarkpit then, it might be different now.

/ 2 cents

IMO the "team" includes all SP regulars, even if they aren't contributing directly to the map. One of the biggest strengths of this place is the level of constructive feedback a person can expect. it would be a waste to reject that.

I agree with TB, here at Snarkpit, (the regulars at least) are all one big team. We all helped each other out, and we all give feedback (which we all take a reject as we see fit). So I dont mind having "outside" people see our work. But I do have a thing against sending other people our .RMF's. In my opinion, that is not something they need. .BSP's and screens are enough. And its only for feedback.

And I'm still waiting on sections here..

Yeah I know. Got a ton of Uni work at the moment and lots of other commitments as well. Hopefully I'll find an hour or two to work on it tonight, then I can mail it to you.

Ok, and the rest, send me your stuff too.

i have absolutely no problem with the guys here at the pit putting their two cents in....these guys taught me how to do it in the first place.....kinda like askin yer brother to borrow the car.... :heee:

now, if we were developing a new GAME?....pfffttt...all bets would be off...

Doc B... :dodgy:

Snarks, the game... heh, has a nice ring to it :razz: lol