2005 Mapping Competition thread

Leperous said:
make a surreal, non-realistic HL2DM level using your twisted, sad minds

Just how sick and twisted can this map be to be able to post it to the general public? Can I really go into the darkest nooks and crannies of my mind and show what is there? OR what.....

Unleash it. As long as it isn't anything to do with Sally Struthers.

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http://www.jamesdeth.co.uk

I WANT TO KEEP MY SNARKPIT NAME AS THURSDAY- AND NOT CHANGE IT TO MY NEW ALIAS OF THALDARIN! WHY? NOSTALGIC PURPOSES FOR ME! STOP ASKING ME IF I WANT TO GET IT CH

Unleash it.

Sounds cool. Better than 'release it'. Hehe...

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

I might enter... Depends how comfy I am with HL2 mapping.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Wild Card</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext> Depends</DIV></DIV>

You know what asswipe??? NO BODY even hints to my diaper habit till you arrive.. :heee:

/Me missed you ol' man.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Sorry Jon, didnt want to reveal your secret to everyone. I didnt mean to

Yea buddy I missed ya too. Missed all of you. Missed making maps.

Heard about this contest on Planet Half-Life a few days ago, and just had to register once I saw the theme (and, of course, the quality of the site itself, not to mention the seemingly pleasant demeanor of its members).

Hopefully I'll be able to complete something in time--don't take that as a complaint about the deadline, it's just that I'm very lazy and take forever to get anything done--but had a question about standard procedure for one o' these contests before I get started. When it says that I'm supposed to have the map listed in my profile by the deadline, does that mean I'm expected to keep you up to date on my progress, bit by bit? Or do I just finish the map on my own time, and only post it when it's completely finished?

I've never been very good at estimating "percent complete", so I'm a little worried... :biggrin:

Robert Martens said:
(the seemingly pleasant demeanor of its members).

Boy is this one in for a surprise.

rubs hands together in expectation

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Orpheus said:
Boy is this one in for a surprise.

rubs hands together in expectation

Heh heh...I look forward to whatever you guys've got. I have to say, I frequent a sprinkling of message boards around the internet, this one doesn't appear to be so bad.
"Appear" being the operative word, I suppose.

Just have the map in your profile after it's finished, so people can check it out and give their voice for the maps they liked.

You don't have to keep us updated, and for a contest it might not be
wise to give away your idea's too early, but some playtesting and
critics along the way are never a bad idea when you're going for a
good, playable map... :wink:

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

Gotcha. Just wanted to be clear.

Actually, come to think of it, perhaps showing my idea early would be more of a defense against others lifting it; should a conflict arise, any comments or screenshots would act as a sort of paper trail...sans paper, of course.

Not that I'm worried about anyone stealing the priceless gems I come up with so often.

Robert Martens said:
Not that I'm worried about anyone stealing the priceless gems I come up with so often.

My thoughts exactly. It is my experience that damed few actually steal anything in the map editing area around here. In fact, most avoid any similarities whenever possible to forestall any accusations.

Besides, even if 2 people set out to create the same map, its doubtful they would succeed without working with each other on doing so.
I can almost guarantee that if you were to post the best idea ever, damned few would make maps so similar that stealing would be the excuse.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Yeah, any one who is good enough to beat you with your idea wouldn't steal your idea in the first place.

just a question...are we allowed to have say a slight combine start
which goes into a surreal style asin like an experament lab or
something?

An experimental lab doesn't sound particularly "unreal," unless they've been making portals to bizarre universes and everything has gone wrong...

that was sort of my idea... a nice big portal influnced by the combine research team but goes to funky new places

but reproductions of film scenes

How close do you mean by this? If you have seen Un Chien Andalou,I
was thinking of the scene where the guy is on the balcony with the moon
behind, would that be allowed as a small part of the map?

Are you allowed to take an idea from a surreal film and modify it?

No offence, but I think this contest hasn't been thought through thoughrougly (tongue twister there). There arn't many custom textures for HL2 yet, and surreal stuff needs alot more textures etc, which is gunna make the map build time much greater, and there may not be as many contestants.

/me pets Cassius for his good work.

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-[Better to be Honest than Kind]-

But you can make your own textures or find pics and convert them into
the right format, it just makes it a bit harder for people who can't do
that to just use HL2 textures.

I was trying to work on a custom cel-shading shader and a flatshaded
material pack to go along with it, but I haven't had much joy finding
out much about writing shaders for HL2. My main concern is that even
one of the example ones they give you doesn't work right when you
compile it, leaving me unsure if I've done something wrong. Now that
I'm back home I no longer have my computer rigged up to a net
connection, and considering everything HL2 editing related needs steam
running, I can't do much unfortunately. I'll keep you guys posted if I
make any progress on it.

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

Okay, so now that I've got answers to my procedure related questions, I have to ask about this particular idea's relevance to the contest.

Would a street that's bent backward over itself (in a sort of S shape) be considered "unreal"? Yes, it's just a normal city street, with normal looking buildings, but folded up. Some of the buildings collided, sticking into one another, and in order to move around the map, you hop to and fro between right side up and upside down structures, climbing on whatever presents itself as a handy platform.

Too normal? I'm sure I can come up with another idea if need be, but this was the first that struck me.

I was trying to work on a custom cel-shading shader and a flatshaded
material pack to go along with it, but I haven't had much joy finding
out much about writing shaders for HL2. My main concern is that even
one of the example ones they give you doesn't work right when you
compile it, leaving me unsure if I've done something wrong. Now that
I'm back home I no longer have my computer rigged up to a net
connection, and considering everything HL2 editing related needs steam
running, I can't do much unfortunately. I'll keep you guys posted if I
make any progress on it.

I also looked into such possibilities before deciding on regular brush-based cel-shading. While I'm sure shader-based is possible, I'm
not sure if it would be practical in the context of this competition -
aren't shaders hardcoded into the DLLs or something? Good luck on the
pack anyway.

Oh, and I also agree with Myrk: the regular HL2 texture set seems kind
of limiting for the theme of this contest. Obviously those who can get
custom textures / models are going to be at the greatest advantage. But
it's usually that way with every contest.

Robert: A folded-up city street sounds interesting, just as long as the buildings aren't too normal.

I will probably be entering this, started on some paper some thought's
for a map (haven't done much of it in hammer), called dm_kingdom.

Yeah CJ, they are hardcoded into DLLs, but provided they use a standard
naming convention it seems they are picked up automatically by the
engine so you don't need to make a mod in order to use custom shaders.
I'm not 100% on this and as I said there seems to be very little info
around on the subject, but from what I've found from looking into it
thats how it seems. I doubt DLL's could be downloaded from a server,
but I think they could be distributed with a map or material pack ok.

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

OhI love how unreal has a shader editor built into the level editor :smile: I bet you wish hammer had one at this point reno :smile:

Well considering writing shaders in HL2 source involves using an
external IDE such as Visual Studio, compiling into a DLL, editing
materials to make use of said shader, and restarting the game in order
to load them in...yes, I'd rather like it if I could just edit them
from hammer :biggrin: I guess that the material system lets you tweak a fair
bit of shader properties from hammer though, even if not the shaders
themselves.

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

Hey lep, when about's would it be possible to post up a list of participants / people who might?

ReNo said:
Well considering writing shaders in HL2 source involves using an external IDE such as Visual Studio, compiling into a DLL, editing materials to make use of said shader, and restarting the game in order to load them in...yes, I'd rather like it if I could just edit them from hammer :biggrin: I guess that the material system lets you tweak a fair bit of shader properties from hammer though, even if not the shaders themselves.

are you sure you couldnt tweak an existing shader with the appropriate parameters and values ? there are 60 existing shaders afaik, so i would guess at least one of them could do the job you want it to do.

however, as frustrating as i encountered it to be, tweaking shaders is a time-consuming trial & error thing. it'll be about balancing what would take the least amount of time i guess. gl anyway :smile:

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These words are my diaries screaming out loud

Nah I highly doubt it, unless I'm overlooking a cel-shading specific
one that already exists. Cel-shading is a fairly specific effect and
isn't something your going to be able to achieve by tweaking some
generic lightmapped texture shader or whatever. It should be fairly
simple to write once I actually get around to it, but it isn't
something that can really be achieved through changing parameters.

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

PLEASE IGNORE: Like an idiot, I posted BEFORE checking the full competition details.

Just checking, is it alright to go alien themed or something similar.
I've got a pretty sweet idea for gameplay and technical stuff, just I
would like to have it in either an alien or fanatasy setting. Would
that be ok? The technical stuff (too hush hush to reveal at the moment)
is going to be the surreal or trippy, or at least cool thing.

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Ham and Jam Contributor
http://www.hamandjam.org

'Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!'

Yes it's okay, again as long as there's something pretty surreal/'trippy' about it.

And I'm already getting spammed to hell on this competition account :argh:

Leperous said:
And I'm already getting spammed to hell on this competition account :argh:

So, I shouldn't tell you that I placed the ad on the server MOTD then?
I can remove it.. Give the word and its gone.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Hell I didnt enter the last one might as well shoot for this one :biggrin: But considering my recent patterns in mapping I might not even get to it hehe... Ever sinse HL2 I have had such a hard time sitting down and getting some mapping done.... been having to much fun with my social life hehe. But hopefully this will bring me back into mapping mode :smile:

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Nightwatch Level Designer
Crackerjack Level Design Site

<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>[quote=Campaignjunkie] and I also agree with Myrk: the regular HL2 texture set seems kind of limiting for the theme of this contest. Obviously those who can get custom textures / models are going to be at the greatest advantage. But it's usually that way with every contest[/quote]</DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
I see this as an encouragement to use normal textures. The reward would be far greater if you could come up with something truely unreal with your plain ol' HL2 textures.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Reno</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Yeah CJ, they are hardcoded into DLLs, but provided they use a standard naming convention it seems they are picked up automatically by the engine so you don't need to make a mod in order to use custom shaders. I'm not 100% on this and as I said there seems to be very little info around on the subject, but from what I've found from looking into it thats how it seems. I doubt DLL's could be downloaded from a server, but I think they could be distributed with a map or material pack ok.</DIV></DIV>

I also believe this is correct. I've encountered some problems with using different versions of a map. For example, if you would extract a HL2 singeplayer level from the CFG, alter it, and place it in the corresponding folder (mind you, not the CFG) and run the game, you would end up playing the altered version of the map.

First there's a check if there's a newer version of the file. If not, the standard file is loaded. If true the custom file is loaded.

/5 cents (we dont use 2 cents anymore in Europe :smile: )

Yeah, if I use the regular HL2 texture set, I always inevitably turn
towards imitation, and I imagine a lot of other people have the same
problem. But kudos to you if you can still be fresh and original! :smile:

Right now though I'm struggling with a different problem: layout. I've
drawn a dozen layouts and I can't really come up with anything. Anyone
have any advice as to how they come up with their layouts?

Lay-out of my competition entry was fairly easy...bit random. I always 'try' to base the lay-out on the eye-candy that you create...no point in making gorgeous looking area's if anybody never walks through them because there isn't enough 'hardware' for them to find...

Right now though I'm struggling with a different problem: layout. I've
drawn a dozen layouts and I can't really come up with anything. Anyone
have any advice as to how they come up with their layouts?

Yep: "inspiration". By this I actually mean inspiration rather than a
cheap clone of a map. All maps have different levels. Have a look at a
good map with a good layout - UT2004 is always a good start - and then
see how the levels are laid out and in particular, connected. Then
modify in the extreme. A slight modification of this tactic is to play
a level you like having not played it for a while, and then try and
recreate that layout in your map or on paper after quiting the game.
There is no way on earth that you will come up with the same layout,
but you should have a reasonably good one.

I by no means use this for all my maps, but I've tried it recently and it worked quite well.

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My site

With my layout i'm trying to make sure that the walk ways around the
edge's aren't too far away from each other, and then have way's to get
from each bit to another but not too easily, if any of that made sense.

Come to think of it, what's the policy on previews and critiques?
Presumably preview stuff is allowed, but what about specifically asking
for critiques and suggestions for competition maps? Only reason I can
think of for not allowing it is to prevent maps from coming from an
army of people having input.

Sorry, probably a daft question. :smile:

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My site

I'm pretty sure critiques are okay. It happened a lot last competition,
anyway. How would Lep regulate such a thing anyway? I assume private
messages are private... Right? :wink:

I thinking of trying one of those optical illusions where you have
staircases that go up down left and right, defying gravity. Only
problem I see is that it would only work with one person at a time, ie.
I'll use gravity entities and teleporters to complete the effect.

Now with all this said, noone can steal my idea :razz:

I'm gonna need a lot of help with this...

Until later...

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Dark_Kilauea
DVS Administration
http://www.dvstudio-production.com/

Dark_Kilauea said:
Now with all this said, noone can steal my idea :razz:

This is what I have done with my 'floating-isles' map...justed posted the idea in the 'maps' section and voila, a pattent on the idea :biggrin:

Paladin[NL said:
]
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Dark_Kilauea</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Now with all this said, noone can steal my idea :razz:

This is what I have done with my 'floating-isles' map...justed posted the idea in the 'maps' section and voila, a pattent on the idea :biggrin: </div></div>

i'm sorry to break this to you, but an idea can never be protected, only how you work out that idea. E.g. in movies,books,... the idea/theme of a student loving her teacher cant be protected, only how a writer works out that theme in a specific movie,book,... can be protected.

So if someone wants to make a staircase map, he can. he will probably have a totally different map then kilauea anyway. since you posted a screenshot, one can be "forbidden" to work ou that idea in a similar way, yet he can materialise your idea in his own original way.

Of course, there is very little chance that this will happen, since originality and common sense will vote against them, but still, pure objectively speaking they should have the same chance as you.

Anyway, it's better not to post your idea untill when theres not enough time for someone to make a whole map.

and no, my theme isnt one of these two

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These words are my diaries screaming out loud

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Paladin[NL</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>This is what I have done with my 'floating-isles' map...justed posted the idea in the 'maps' section and voila, a pattent on the idea :biggrin: </DIV></DIV>

Umm....but you stole my idea! etc. etc. :wink:

http://www.snarkpit.net/maps.php?map=742

Good luck with your map though. I gave up on mine due to all the vertex manipulation it would have needed to get it how I wanted. :smile:

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You Got To Get Through What You've Got To Go Through To Get What You Want But You Got To Know What You Want To Get Through What You Got To Go Through

You're not going to model then, Adam? Or using dismaps?

Anyway, the floating island idea is quite old actually. I remember Tomb
Raider 2 having such a level. Not to forget the many 2D games... :razz: .
It's how you work it out that can make your map original. Good luck
bytheway.

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

Considering my map was for HL1, I don't think displacement maps would work :wink:

This competition seems to be really quiet this year, nobody other than the few that have posted here entering?

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You Got To Get Through What You've Got To Go Through To Get What You Want But You Got To Know What You Want To Get Through What You Got To Go Through

Adam Hawkins said:
This competition seems to be really quiet this year, nobody other than the few that have posted here entering?

Because HL2DM was a disappointment thats why.

I still like HL, but.. The drive to play it is missing.

Shame really. I played HL1 online with 56k for nearly 2 years.. Played it almost daily.. I have broadband now and can barely work up a 20 minute session.
I do not wanna sound like a doom sayer, but /methinks HL2 won't last as long if they do not do something soon.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

<DIV class=quotetitle>? posted by Orpheus</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Adam Hawkins</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

This competition seems to be really quiet this year, nobody other than the few that have posted here entering?

</DIV></DIV>

Because HL2DM was a disappointment thats why.

I still like HL, but.. The drive to play it is missing.

Shame really. I played HL1 online with 56k for nearly 2 years.. Played it almost daily.. I have broadband now and can barely work up a 20 minute session.
I do not wanna sound like a doom sayer, but /methinks HL2 won't last as long if they do not do something soon.

</DIV>

big jon, i think you nailed it square on the head....at this point, other than the simple fact that i love the mapping aspect of it, hl2 in general still stands in the corner .....scolding the makers wont really do, because it IS a leap in technology, but it suffices to say im not overly enthusiastic about getting to the pc to play it anymore.....doesnt live up to the hype.....and that really bums me, as i was so looking forward to it.... :/ im thinking that if everyone was truly honest, they would prolly agree....

is it just me, or has the general attitude of some of the newer mappers especially disheartening?..where have all the mikeys, and yaks, and others gone?....rare to see them, and im sure its not all due to course work etc.....if the game was up to snuff, they'd be here dead on it, one way or another.... kindof a depressing thought......sorry...

anyway, im not sure if ill even attempt a comp entry, id like to get into the serious materials manufacturing end of it, as it seems that still gets me passionate, and connected to the game.....to be continued.....

Doc B.... :dodgy:

<div class="quote"><div class="quotetitle">

</div><div class="quotetext">[quote]

[/quote]
HL2DM was a disappointment

</div></div>

I agree. If valve don't release a massive update which fixes all the bugs and implements some new, DECENT
maps (not like that runoff shi-t, which the dream-update should either
fix or remove), then HL2DM is heading on a one-way trip to endsville :sad: .

Strange, I like HL2DM, though I probably don't play enough to encounter those bugs everyone's complaining about...

Hmm, perhaps it's just the start that's uneasy? From the well-known
HLDM mapping to the relatively unknown HL2DM? I don't know, but that's
one of the reasons I started mapping for HL2 so late. It's new, costs
time to learn, time I didn't had that much.

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Create-ivity - a game development blog