Gentlemen, we've really got to stop.

I don't think I'm alone in noticing that things have gone rather sour around here recently; Half Life 2's release has brought us a (relative) influx of new faces, and with any such introduction of new blood to a community as tight as ours, some chaos can be expected. The problem there is that it's not just the new people acting up, but the regulars. Threads from the time of Jesus' birth are being dug up on a daily basis, the quality of the maps being showcased has taken a huge turn for the worse (though that's just an observation and can't be regulated), all notions of correct spelling or grammar or font size have gone to hell, and everybody's f**king fighting. It's true: hardly a thread goes by that doesn't see a tragic pissing match of some sort.

I know that all of this sounds retarded and hypocritical coming from me - and I'm a part of this too - but seriously, we have to stop.

don't worry, i'm done

I don't like to fight, but i'll admit that I do go OTT sometimes. I'll try and control my self next time.

I agree Cass, and I'm probably as guilty as anyone. I apologise for any
insults I've dished out or toes I've trodden on, and rest assured that
I'm not the type to bare a grudge from any arguments I've had with any
of you.

Hugs all round :smile:

Ok, i'm done flaming :sad: .

May the great snark in the sky forgive our sins of forum-flaming.

Amen.

Group Hug!

Sloth I miss your old avatar. You really did look angry! This one isn't bad tho I guess. I'll just hafta get used to it. By the way, that font is way too big.

flame, and be flamed by ma fire-snarks!

I would like to apologize to the community for that annoying outbreak (my previous thread). :sad: The thing is, i have been under alot of stress lately. Besides the usual pre-holiday stress, i have to learn a huge 500 page tome about aerodynamics. And then another 200 page book about flying fixed-wing aircraft and, finnaly, the flight legislation (don't know how it's called in english). :sad:

Sloth I miss your old avatar...

I like your new one. Isn't this little statuette from the movie "Dogma"? Was his name "Buddy Jesus"?

it was "buddy Christ"

Also, sorry for calling lotsa people f**ktards and assclowns. I'll stop. I am relatively new here and I don't want to be known as one of the dumbass n00bs. It seems like all of the older members seem to have something against the n00bs because most of them are thread-resurrecting, flamers. But I'll stop blasting people now. Just give the n00bs some respect when they speak thier own opinion that may differ from your own. Just because they are new to the site, doesnt mean they were born yesterday.

Am I still allowed to be sarcastic with people who ask editing questions with all the grammatical competence of a gopher?

I'll play nice from here on out, Cass. You're definitely right that things have taken something of a nasty turn in the past few weeks.

Somehow I'm glad that I can't get the HL2 SDK before next autumn... It seems to make people forget their manners...

Why does this always happen when I go away for a few days?!!

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Leperous</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Why does this always happen when I go away for a few days?!!</DIV></DIV>
Yup..

Somehow I'm glad that I can't get the HL2 SDK before next autumn... It seems to make people forget their manners...

it makes me bash my keyboard, seriously, i hate the whole sdk system,
give me back the old valve tools wihtout loading a long time for a
LAGGY hammer wiht BUGGY features......

Leperous said:
Why does this always happen when I go away for a few days?!!

Yup..

Nothing has happened? :razz:

Just endless topic resurrections, which already has some counter
measures proposed, and the two forum contingents clashing (new
and old). Nothing major... why do people always make a mountain when
you go away? :razz:

We need your stable presence to maintain rationale !!

Suggestion:

Want no more forum trash?

Hire Turrican as a mod :biggrin:

Find him! http://www.svencoop.com/forums/index.php?

Why do you think I left for a few weeks?

maps are only getting worse cause hl2 hammer is strange.... i bet you veteran mappers can make cool maps in no-time :smile:

just that people have to get used to some new stuff i guess.

as for us new guys pposting all these maps, yes we should stop doing that unless they are good maps... i'll wait for myself to make a good map before posting next time :smile:

Lies Gorbachev. I distinctly remember your absenteeism being related to the fairer sex. You can't pretend to be a geek now!

He's a norm! Social life! Eyyyarrrgh!

Gball, as usual, like the resurrected threads, youre not helping. Go
play with some matches in a barn full of dry hay, hand grenades,
anything.

maps are only getting worse cause hl2 hammer is strange.... i bet you veteran mappers can make cool maps in no-time :smile:

just that people have to get used to some new stuff i guess.

as for us new guys pposting all these maps, yes we should stop doing
that unless they are good maps... i'll wait for myself to make a good
map before posting next time :smile:

That isn't really the point the main issues we have are -

People resurrecting topics from weeks, months - hell, even YEARS ago.

People not taking any care when posting - spelling, grammar, even basic things like writing in sentences are being disregarded.

Nobody is saying "DONT POST MAPS IF YOURE NEW!" We have said, don't
post test maps like "I built two rooms in Hammer to see how the new
version works!" - the whole idea of Snarkpit is posting incomplete
maps, and getting feedback to produce a better end product.

Atleast this guy is using the power of the new hammer.

http://forum.interlopers.net/viewtopic.php?t=486&start=0

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Spartan 34</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Atleast this guy is using the power of the new hammer.

http://forum.interlopers.net/viewtopic.php?t=486&start=0

</DIV></DIV>
Nice looking map. Let's stick to the topic.

Lies Gorbachev. I distinctly remember your absenteeism being
related to the fairer sex. You can't pretend to be a geek now!

He's a norm! Social life! Eyyyarrrgh!

Gball, as usual, like the resurrected threads, youre not helping. Go
play with some matches in a barn full of dry hay, hand grenades,
anything.

Hah, I've been getting some from the fairer sex long before my absence
:smile: hell, I like to go straight from suave to geek many a time. No, I
left for a while in hopes that at least the community would come to a
bit of a realization at how hostile it had become and it wasn't a point
worth wasting hours lurking to prove. I've got a really condensed
Computer systems/Network systems technician course to deal with
currently so it made it that much easier to just leave it until the
mood picked up.

Yeah im sorry for all the flamings, ill stop, I think ill only use the snarkpit now for help and correcting my maps.

At the same time though it's good to realize our how hostile most of us have been (including me), but it's also not our fault that noobs keep bringing dead threads and posting their box maps.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Gwil</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle> </DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Leperous</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Why does this always happen when I go away for a few days?!!</DIV></DIV>

</DIV></DIV>

Nothing has happened? :razz:

</DIV></DIV>

i tend to share this belief, but...
one thing i would like to share though, if you are waiting for me to change, bring a lunch, you're gonna need it.

At the same time though it's good to realize our how hostile
most of us have been (including me), but it's also not our fault
that noobs keep bringing dead threads and posting their box
maps.

You know, I think that's the whole problem. Suddenly, a "n00b" has
become this really horrible, criminal, sociopathic, monstrous,
destructive thing to be.

If someone is wrong, tell them they're wrong and what they need to do
to get it right. Leave the rest to the moderators. Flaming is a waste
of time.

Of course, I'm talking about the (so called) forum etiquette here.
Political discussions and stuff are exempt because they are designed
for flaming :razz: .

Just my 2 cents (even though we use paise here)

Don't blame the n00bs. Remember, we were all n00bs at one stage.

Four years ago.

I chose to avoid the term 'noob' in my original post for a reason.

"Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it."

• William Pitt

I think HL2 has unlimited power...

When I was a noob and first started out mapping I didn't mind people calling me a noob. I new my position and understood that eventually I would get good enough at mapping that people would no longer call me a noob. I call people who just start off mapping a noob but I don't see it as a bad thing. Its the noobs that make the box map and revive dead threads that give people the idea that being a "noob" is a really really bad thing.

the only problem i have with the word "n00b" is, it seems to have way to many applications.. people use it way to often IMO, to describe a whole plethora of situations. not all of which are "new" in nature. :sad:

it seems to me that the only people who have a problem being called N00B, are suffering from an affliction where n00b doesn't fit them at all.. its the idiots, and the self prepossessed types whom most often have the audacity to bitch when branded n00b.

for the record, in many cases i still consider myself a n00b, in spite of my 5+ years in the mapping scene.. as far as i am concerned, anyone who has a problem being called n00b, doesn't even deserve our time to invest in them.. at the first complaint, we should blackball them.

/2cents

"Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it."

• William Pitt

I think HL2 has unlimited power...

Heh, you need to map more. The Source engine really is nothing
more than a somewhat evolved Half-Life 1. Evolutionary instead of
revolutionary. It certainly isn't as powerful as say, the UT2k4
engine.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Raeth</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

It certainly isn't as powerful as say, the UT2k4 engine.
</DIV></DIV>

i dunno, if i recall, UT still didn't have anything as rudimentary as even a ladder.

besides, you cannot mix apples and oranges, neither engine is comparable to the other. attempting to find one, or to argue similarities nether posses, is asking for it.
both engines have more potential than we are liable to exceed any time soon.

No, HL2 is basically entirely new. It did not evolve, as you say, from HL1.

And I didn't mean power like that.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Raeth</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>. It certainly isn't as powerful as say, the UT2k4 engine.
</DIV></DIV>
Im sorry..........that is flat out incorrect. Source isnt as powerful as persay the Unreal 3 engine, or the Doom 3 engine, but it is definitley more powerful than the current UT engine in terms of capabilities.

edit: I will say that the UT editor is more powerful than Hammer, but in terms of engine capabilities....NO!

I believe there is a distinction between "n00b" and "newbie". N00b has a negative connotation attached, whereas "newbie" is innocuous. It's subtle, but it's similar to the difference between "Oriental" and "Asian". Personally, I prefer to be referred as a newbie instead of the alternative.

But for me, it's not which term is used, but how it's used that really matters. When used in the wrong context (i.e. condescending and degrading), any term can be demeaning.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Raeth</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Heh, you need to map more. The Source engine really is nothing more than a somewhat evolved Half-Life 1. Evolutionary instead of revolutionary. It certainly isn't as powerful as say, the UT2k4 engine.
</DIV></DIV>
Yeah, Source has got nothing on UT2k4's... detail textures.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting satchmo</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

But for me, it's not which term is used, but how it's used that really matters. When used in the wrong context (i.e. condescending and degrading), any term can be demeaning.

</DIV></DIV>

sadly, some people only respond well to this approach. i know some mappers, whom cannot take any form of criticism, no matter how benign. to them, all forms are condescending.
by and large, the core members of the pit, keep each other in line when it comes to commenting on maps.. i would be far more inclined to accept the comments of a peer than a newbie, or n00b, but only about sentence structure, not my reason for posting in the first place. damned few members have that much sway over my replies. :biggrin:

"n00b" does have a negative connotation. the cause being that most references to n00b in terms of class assignment to certian individuals tends to create stereotypes and a group of people who, being placed in the aforementioned stereotype who have nothing in common. E.g. we have me, a "n00b", simply because i have only been here about a month, on the other end of the spectrum we have the "n00b" who has just installed his copy of half-life 2 (HL2 being his first game) and calls all products on his computer "My Microsoft." After having over 10 years of experience in the computer ANd computer gaming area, I can see where being lumped into one group with such folks as said "n00b" would be insulting. Inasmuch as i have heretofore been one of the biggest "n00b-callers" of this forum, I beleive that i would be doing a good service to our community to cease all usage (barring any mitigating circumstances including but not limited to a flame war[God forbid]) of the word "n00b." I shall cease using this derrogatory slang and i encourage you to do the same. :biggrin:

You can't just ban all usage of the word "n00b": it's a perfectly good word. As for people who like to make millions of killboxes and think they're cool, I propose a new term: "Complete Moron With No Self Awareness Whatsoever" This new term will have several synonyms including: idiot, dolt, nincompoop, peabrain, looser, and many more. Now there should be no confusing n00bs with morons. :-D

My brother, Love is what makes the world go round. we can't have hate in our hearts. to the tune of "Imagine" by John lennon

Imagine there's no heaven,
It's easy if you try,
no newbies joining,
just me and lep'rous and the guys.

And all thread resurrections,
they would not exist.

Imagine there's no box-maps,
It isn't hard to do,
no more "killbox" versions
and FY_ maps too.

Imagine 1337 mappers,
sharing what they've made.

You may call me a newbie,
but i'm not the only one,
Perhaps some day you'll accept us,
And the 'pit will live as one.

Thank you, you've been great. :biggrin:

What

I think at this point one of the greatest movie lines ever is fitting..

adopts small childs voice

"Mommy?"

oh

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Orpheus</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>the only problem i have with the word "n00b" is, it seems to have way to many applications.. people use it way to often IMO, to describe a whole plethora of situations. not all of which are "new" in nature. :sad:

it seems to me that the only people who have a problem being called N00B, are suffering from an affliction where n00b doesn't fit them at all.. its the idiots, and the self prepossessed types whom most often have the audacity to bitch when branded n00b.

for the record, in many cases i still consider myself a n00b, in spite of my 5+ years in the mapping scene.. as far as i am concerned, anyone who has a problem being called n00b, doesn't even deserve our time to invest in them.. at the first complaint, we should blackball them.

/2cents

</DIV></DIV>
Why would you still consider yourself a noob?