Controversy Past

I was on TWHL last week and some people were saying that nobody should discriminate against anyone's sexual preference. They said since I am intolerant of homosexuality, that I am a bigot and should be classified with nazis. Then I told them that Pedophilia, bestiality, (and necrophilia) are sexual preferences too, and that they are just as valid as the main two. Yet society discriminates against them and nobody says anything about it. Now, I understand that all three of those are completely disgusting and everyone knows it but the people doing them. But 50 years ago, so was homosexuality. Do you think that these sexual preferences will be accepted some day just like homosexuality? What are your thoughts on this matter? Either all of them must be un-discriminated-against or none.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Homosexuality involves willing participants - children, animals and corpses are not willing participants. I think thats enough of a distinction between the set you suggested.

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

Nickel. I don't think that its possible to have an "All encompassing" sexual thread. The ideals of pleasurable sex, or even popular sex is just to vast.

I personally do not see a thread of this type having a resolvable discussion.

That doesn't mean that I feel that you should not have posted it, or that you will be bashed for doing so. I just feel that the scope is to large to be placed in one discussion.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

And your comment adds little to nothing to the topic! :razz:

Reno hit the nail on the head. In addition to that, though. Disregarding pedophilia and incest there's a pretty standard "not outside the species" rule. Screwing your dog will probably never be accepted, for instance ... even if the dog is ready and willing ... gross.

But, there are plenty of sexual preferences allows already! Old and young people get it on together all the time. So do large and little people, short and tall ... etc. I think, homosexuality was one of the last "alright, I can understand that and I need to respect your right to do it" type of things left. Anything beyond that ... you're either harming someone, or it really is a mental condition. Wanting to screw your sister isn't normal. Neither is oogling your 5 year old daughter's friend's little brother. There's just things that are not okay, especially because in most situations, it is not mutual.

That's my take on it.

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

I was on TWHL last week and some people were saying that nobody should discriminate against anyone's sexual preference. They said since I am intolerant of homosexuality, that I am a bigot and should be classified with nazis. Then I told them that Pedophilia, bestiality, (and necrophilia) are sexual preferences too, and that they are just as valid as the main two. Yet society discriminates against them and nobody says anything about it. Now, I understand that all three of those are completely disgusting and everyone knows it but the people doing them. But 50 years ago, so was homosexuality. Do you think that these sexual preferences will be accepted some day just like homosexuality? What are your thoughts on this matter? Either all of them must be un-discriminated-against or none.

I don't understand why you even go to that place. I f**king hate TWHL.

end rant/

Now as Reno stated there is a difference because kids, animals, and corpses are not consenting adults. However I would condone the actions of a necrophile long before I ever would of a peadophile. You don't cause psychological and physicle harm to a corpses. They're already dead.

Now as for Nickleplate I think your beliefs are just fine. If you don't accept homosexuality that's just fine. You don't have to accept if you don't want to. Just don't go around beating up gay or bi people now. :smile: What I find most irritating though is that there are those all over the internet who will bash religion and defends gays, yet they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

There are even cases where girls will act bisexual at a school to try and attract more guys.

You are "intolerant" of homosexuality? What are homosexuals supposed to do? To quote an ironic simpson episode about the end of days: "Why did I choose to be gay?" (I am not btw, just to make that clear...) It's not something people decide to be. They just are homosexual and because they don't hurt anyone (in fact are often more friendly and kind than heterosexuals) there is no reason to condem them.

It's like saying "I don't tolerate infertile people!" or "I don't tolerate people who like brunettes!" Completely pointless.

You're comparing homosexuality (the love between two men) with perverse sexual acts with non-willing participants. That's rather bigot in my eyes. To be honest I don't know many homosexuals and their way of talking makes my ears ring. But I tolerate them. I don't see any reason why not to. The word tolerate means to me to accept someone else to be what he is. I don't know if there again is some weird shift of meaning in the English definition of the word but I don't think so. Please tell me a reason someone should not tolerate homosexuals?

The only thing that says children cannot consent is society. The same society that is being decried for not allowing gay marriages. And you're not HURTING animals and corpses, just like gays aren't hurting anyone.

[edit] i don't beat up gays, lol. I like the PEOPLE for the most part. But what they do is abominable.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Having sex with an animal is akin to raping somebody - you DO NOT have their consent but you are forcing yourself on them anyway. Its not comparable to sex between two consenting, adult, same-sex people.

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

Animals are my property. Animals have no rights... whatsoever.

Dead people are akin to dirt. No rights, no consent age, only a "best if necro'd by" date.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

You people are sick, have you noticed?

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''Everyone wades in s**t until they're competent enough to walk on it. Jesus style.''
Dystopia - Empires

Animals are my property. Animals have no rights... whatsoever.
Dead people are akin to dirt. No rights, no consent age, only a "best if necro'd by" date.

Isn't there a law against cruelty to animals? Also dead people aren't akin to dirt to their relatives.

The difference is that homosexuals can and do agree to have sex with their partners which in the other cases is either impossible or questionable. I'd even agree with you on homosexual acts being unpleasant to imagine for heterosexuals but that still doesn't explain why you wouldn't tolerate it.

Is it something religious?

aww cmon nickelplate, your not that bad, everyone has the right to choose what they think is right and wrong, even though some things are "sociably unacceptable" such as necro, animal or child, as the above have already said, they cannot give concent so it is deemed wrong. I hope these three actually stay unacceptable, as i view them as such.

Homosexuality is on different terms completetly, it is mutually agreed (hope thats the right word) and is accepted in most countries (like the UK) by 9 out of 10 people, i.e. most will. you may not like some of the stuff that goes through said people's heads or dont understand why it happens, but thats perfectly fine, as long as you dont try to stop what happens. Thats when it becomes wrong to discriminate.

Overall think what you like, but think again before you act on it. acting on its different.

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I need a new sig

It isn't cruelty, it's LOVE!

And you don't TELL thier families, or else you use corpses related to you.

And yeah, I am very devout in my beleifs. I don't like the word "religious' because a religion is a bunch of people all doing the same things instead of thier own personal beliefs. I have my own personal belefs that are not necessarily that of any one organized church. but anyway, I have more than just religious reasons for not liking homosexuality as a concept.

• I personally believe that it is an abomination to my God.
• It goes against what is natural for every animal including humans, Largely a waste of time and effort, not to mention a thorn in the side of our current relations laws system. Don't you think we have more important things to worry about than whether gays can marry instead of "civil unions," or whatever. There are terrorist-funding countries that call us "the great satan" that are refining uranium and jacking up oil prices. There is hunger and poverty all over the world and even in our own country and we have the stylish citizens of San Francisco complaining that they can't "legitimize" thier unnatural relationships.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>
It goes against what is natural for every animal including humans, Largely a waste of time and effort, not to mention a thorn in the side of our current relations laws system. Don't you think we have more important things to worry about than whether gays can marry instead of "civil unions," or whatever. There are terrorist-funding countries that call us "the great satan" that are refining uranium and jacking up oil prices. There is hunger and poverty all over the world and even in our own country and we have the stylish citizens of San Francisco complaining that they can't "legitimize" thier unnatural relationships.

</DIV></DIV>

What is natural behaviour? Presumably it is the behaviour of animals (whereas humans, being more sophisticated, can do "unnatural" things).

Many species of animals are well-documented to behave homosexually. Often it's used as a form of status determination: the dominant animal does the buttf*cking, whereas the submissive gets buttf*cked. Homosexual behaviour is also observed in captive animals where females are absent. Animals have even been known to mate with their food bowls.

Note that masturbation is similarly "natural" in many species.

The rest of your post is irrelevant, not to mention insularly neo-conservative. You cannot dismiss the importance of a topic by comparing it to world hunger.

Here's a thought: if most of the heterosexual population were suddenly "struck gay", and became homosexual, then the world's population would decline. Once the population had reduced to, say, less than a billion, we wouldn't have any environmental problems any more :biggrin:

I can see the posters already:

"Save the world -- bugger a man today!"

"Bend over for the environment."

(And yes, I know that's silly. But it does make you wonder about "natural".)

It's not a "concept". Again it's not something people "choose" to do. That's my main problem with your statement.

Homosexuals have been terrorized in every phsychological and physical way for ages (and in some places still today). Now, since a few years, people are starting to accept them. Why do you want to ruin that for these people? That's exactly what you do by shouting out your accusations all over the net. It's pretty cruel towards those people who are completely innocent. It's not just a characteristic for them, it's an essential part of their life.

A personal belief that it is an abomination to somebody's God doesn't justify the discrimination of a group of people with harmless, slightly twisted sexual preferences. My personal belief, for example, is that they should not be discriminated.

Also I do not see any relation between homosexual rights and the time spent to prevent terrorism and poverty. Gay marriage is mainly a method to make it easier for homosexuals to clarify certain legal questions in relationships. You don't raise the number of homosexuals through that anyway, you just make it easier for them to live their lifes which I think is something positive and humane.

The always thrilling debate on the rights or wrongs of homosexuality.

I'll stand this one out and stick pins in my eyes I think.

"I don't understand why you even go to that place. I f**king hate TWHL."

I used to be on TWHL, but then they banned me for unknown reasons, they
said I 'spammed' - which is when I just said things in the shout-box like 'Hi" or 'Im working on a map'. The site is now 100% idiots who just flame and argue, never EVER go into their IRC channel.

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Hahaha! Im using the INTERNET!

Well I've seen pedophilia and necrophilia in nature too, so is it natural? And if we can't compare ourselves to animals, who use animals as justification for what we can or can't do?

Personally, I just think that people want to do whatever they want to do and they will always do it, ANd search until they have a way to justify it, no matter what. I also think that people will defend other people for doing whatever they want, because if they admit that another person is wrong, they might have to admit that they are. Otherwise, why would such straight people even care how homosexuals are treated, as long as it doesn't interfere with their OWN hedonism?

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

And if we can't compare ourselves to animals, who use animals as justification for what we can or can't do?

PETA.

Gwil said:
The always thrilling debate on the rights or wrongs of homosexuality.

I'll stand this one out and stick pins in my eyes I think.

I agree, minus the pins methinks.

I have but one comment. Mankind is born with a plethora of things most can be termed "Good" and "Bad"

I have heard the tired argument about how Homosexuals have no choice in the matter. They are "born" the way they are. I won't even add the sigh in this post, but be aware that it is present while you are reading these words.

Homosexuals may, or may not have a choice in being born the way they are, but they do have a choice whether to "ACT" upon those urges. It is commonly thought that pedophilia, alcoholism,kleptomania, and a whole s**t load of other ailments are born traits. This may or may not be true, but the real truth of the matter is, as responsible adults, you ARE responsible if you do not reign in the urges of these diseases.

I do not want to hear the argument that you cannot compare an illegal action to one that is not illegal because the terms do not apply in this conversation. Kleptomania,alcoholism,homosexuality and all the rest of the supposed "Born" traits are wrong and should not be acted upon... Thats the bottom line of it.

Myself, I do not believe in the born theory. I firmly, and whole heartedly believe that all these actions.. ALL OF THEM, are learned traits. You learn to steal, you learn to burn down buildings, you learn to be gay, you learn them all.

Education and consequences for acting upon them will be the only real deterrent. If no one ever has to pay the piper, then no harm is done, right? :rolleyes:

Society has deemed some of these things more wrong than others so, not all of them are considered "Criminal actions" any longer. If you feel that this is basically true, or you feel that this is because they are not all criminal actions, then YOU are the problem more so than the people doing the things we discuss.

anyway, those pins are looking pretty nifty about now... Can I borrow a few from you Master Gwil? And, a bit of mouthwash because topics like this always leave a bad taste in my mouth. :sad:

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Newsflash WE ARE ANIMALS. We
are built like them, hell chimpanzees have most of the same genes as we
do. In the end human species is just another animal species. Don't try
to bring yourself above your peers. We are just another species of
primates in a word full of living beings like us.

As for homosexuality, I can tolerate their existence as long as they
don't start hampering my life. Only thing I don't agree is adoption
rights. No gay parents should be allowed to adopt children. It just
isn't sound...

You can argue on the topic forever, but it is highly likely that you
will still think the same way of homosexuality after this thread
withers and dies away as you do now...

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''Everyone wades in s**t until they're competent enough to walk on it. Jesus style.''
Dystopia - Empires

Pvt.Scythe said:
You can argue on the topic forever, but it is highly likely that you will still think the same way of homosexuality after this thread withers and dies away as you do now...

If only it would wither... Even a little bit.

It doesn't have to die but it could at least wither a bit.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

another topic that could only have come from one place. you've got problems, buddy.

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i eat paint

I have heard the tired argument about how Homosexuals have no choice in the matter. They are "born" the way they are. I won't even add the sigh in this post, but be aware that it is present while you are reading these words.
Homosexuals may, or may not have a choice in being born the way they are, but they do have a choice whether to "ACT" upon those urges. It is commonly thought that pedophilia, alcoholism,kleptomania, and a whole s**t load of other ailments are born traits. This may or may not be true, but the real truth of the matter is, as responsible adults, you ARE responsible if you do not reign in the urges of these diseases.
I do not want to hear the argument that you cannot compare an illegal action to one that is not illegal because the terms do not apply in this conversation. Kleptomania,alcoholism,homosexuality and all the rest of the supposed "Born" traits are wrong and should not be acted upon... Thats the bottom line of it.
Myself, I do not believe in the born theory. I firmly, and whole heartedly believe that all these actions.. ALL OF THEM, are learned traits. You learn to steal, you learn to burn down buildings, you learn to be gay, you learn them all.
Education and consequences for acting upon them will be the only real deterrent.

That's a gross statement!

Sexuality isn't something you switch on or off. Where should they have "learned" to be gay? What do you mean with that. What does alcoholism have to do with homosexuality? What does it have to do with learning how to burn down buildings? What are they supposed to do? Hide in a hole and beat themselves with a stick whenever they think of an attractive man? That's... I'm running out of words even with my handy dictionary.

...

Burning down buildings?!?

reaper47 said:
That's a gross statement!

...

Burning down buildings?!?

The very concept of Gays is, so what else is new?

And the pyromania just slipped in. I meant to include it, but forgot.

It would be advisable, not to attempt to lecture, or persuade me against my thinking reaper. More influential people than you have already tried, and failed. The best you can hope for, is to understand my thinking, even if it makes you sick as a dog to comprehend it is coming from someone you know.

If I am expected to "accept" homosexuality, then the very least you can do is "accept" that I do so but marginally.

I have Gay friends/acquaintances. If they can accept me, then I don't need you to understand, now do I?

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Let me explain something to those whom may be still confused.

When I say, "Homosexuality is a taught thing" I am not referring to the gross action of taking an impressionable boy and illustrating the proper technique of inserting a penis.

When I say "taught" I refer to a desensitizing procedure.

Imagine, a child is born into a family that butchers animals for a living. A butcher is an honorable tradition but many find it horrific, even though they don't hesitate to purchase meat at the market.

Imagine this child, over the years is subjected to this, in spite of his hesitancy toward killing. Over time, the child is taught that its not so bad, and eventually the child either accepts this as fact, or grows up to not be a butcher.

This is how I envision homosexuality is passed on from one generation to the next. Again, it doesn't matter to me if you disagree, we are only discussing how I see this so you will understand exactly where I stand on the issue.

This desensitizing process is gradual. Over time, more and more generations see homosexuality in a less offensive way. In my time, and many before, there were far fewer accepting individuals as there is now.

Do you realize that this is the first generation that sees bi-sexual as a separate entity? That since they still like the opposite sex too, that they are not gay? Desensitizing has convinced these people that there is a difference somehow.

All the preceding generations say homosexuals as homosexuals. If you voluntarily have sex with your own gender, even once, you are gay. You may be a nonpracticing gay for a time, but you are still as gay as a full time person who has no incentive to seek out the opposite sex for any reason.

Bi-sexual is gay. There is no subtle shades of the position. You like your own gender part time or full time you are gay. end of story.

Anyway, I did not mean "taught" in a gross fashion. I imagine that there is a small percentage of that occurring, but by and large, I do not believe that grown gays are subjugating impressionable boys. :rolleyes:

The only gross thing is your imagination, not mine. :sad:

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The best things in life, aren't things.

Heh, who would have guess I would be here to post on this :/

Anyways, on with the show...

Orpheus said:
Society has deemed some of these things more wrong than others so, not all of them are considered "Criminal actions" any longer. If you feel that this is basically true, or you feel that this is because they are not all criminal actions, then YOU are the problem more so than the people doing the things we discuss.

So then, what exactly is the big problem with homosexuality? Seriously. And don't go using "it'll make more people be teh ghey" as an argument. You have to bottom out somewhere in a recursive definition. You keep railing against the horrors of it, but never really give an explanation of WHAT exactly you are railing against. If you don't want to share, no biggie. Just something to think about.

Pvt.Scythe said:
As for homosexuality, I can tolerate their existence as long as they
don't start hampering my life. Only thing I don't agree is adoption
rights. No gay parents should be allowed to adopt children. It just
isn't sound...

As for this point, I feel quite the opposite. Single parents can adopt children. Single GAY parents can adopt children (trust me on this, people can keep it a secret), however, gay couples often run into problems with it. Why? So it would be a better situation for the child to be reared in foster care with possibly NO positive parental influences rather than to be raised by two people who could love the child just as much as "normie" parents? I don't *quite*think so.

Nickelplate said:
... I told them that Pedophilia, bestiality, (and necrophilia) are sexual preferences too, and that they are just as valid as the main two. Yet society discriminates against them and nobody says anything about it. ...

Tell you what, you don't try to f**k my corpse or f**k my dog, and I won't try to f**k you. Sound like a plan?

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Shameless plug.

Good, Orph.

Here's how sexuality is learned. Think of this scenario:

If there never was EVER such a thing as homosexuality and nobody even knew it was an option, then even if someone WAS predisposed to homosexuality in some genetic fashion, they would write it off as random unusual urges and say "hmm that was gross." then after the first few times of supressing the thoughts of attraction to those of the same sex, the urges would die. Without the preconcieved idea of homosexuality, it's literally unthinkable. We wouldn't even have homosexuality in the manner of animals.

Whether you like it or not, we ARE different from animals. Animals who engage in homosexual behavior are just horny and don't know the difference. Humans can always tell the difference when presented with the genitalia of thier prospective mate.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Barring religious concerns, what makes homosexuality wrong? Does it physically harm those who partake in it? Are homosexual relationships more prone than heterosexual ones to turmoil?

I'm not personally drawn to homosexual relationships or intercourse. To me, however, neither seems to register in my conscience as being wrong - their capacity to hurt or help society as a whole seems minimal, just as heterosexual relationships.

Bestiality, necrophilia and pedophilia, however, are different - as Reno said, they are not mutual or reciprocal sexual acts. Our cultural distaste for them based in considerably firmer logic than our prejudices against homosexuality.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Gwil</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>The always thrilling debate on the rights or wrongs of homosexuality.

I'll stand this one out and stick pins in my eyes I think.
</DIV></DIV>

Nice.

I don't think there's "wrong" with it. Cassius makes a pivotal point.

Orpheus said:
The only gross thing is your imagination, not mine. :sad:

Thats the last thing I have to say this morning on the topic. Everyone seems to have completely ignored my post on the teaching process. I think it sums it up rather neat and tidy. No loop holes. And absolutely no room for a counter argument. If you want to bash your heads against walls till you bleed, thats your problem, not mine.

One fact remains that none of us can debate. Until there is enough incentive to find the cause, there will be no cure. Homosexuality is here to stay otherwise.
/ story

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The best things in life, aren't things.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Monqui</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Tell you what, you don't try to f**k my corpse or f**k my dog, and I won't try to f**k you. Sound like a plan?</DIV></DIV>

So we can work out a deal about the dog, then?

Cassius: the main spread of AIDS and HIV is homosexual relations, in the US. Now, not ALL geyness hurts ALL people. But it's the same concept as banning guns because SOME people have accidents with them. I'm really not FOR the banning of either homosexuality OR guns, but you can't claim that homsexuality doesn't hurt people, because it does hurt some.

Necrophilia doesn't hurt anyone. Bestiality only hurts people when the horse kicks them.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Cars hurt some people, skateboarding hurts some people, stairs hurt some people, heterosexual sex hurts some people.

Also, isn't the existance of AIDS in humans generally attributed to somebody have sex with a monkey?

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

Actually, they've debunked that theory. But it would serve them right... monkey-effers.

Heterosexual sex only hurts young girls who lie about thier age so they can sleep with the high-school football captain.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Actually, they've debunked that theory. But it would serve them right... monkey-effers.
Heterosexual sex only hurts young girls who lie about thier age so they can sleep with the high-school football captain.

I think you are forgetting rape... usually a heterosexual act of control

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Signature? What signature!?

Necrophilia doesn't hurt anyone. Bestiality only hurts people when the horse kicks them.

These horses are dead then? Necrophilia isn't sexual attraction to animals.

Also "homosexuality is the main spread of HIV in the US" - reports/facts/figures to back this up?

I'd wager unprotected heterosexual sex is, and/or sharing needles in drug abuse.

This thread is complete and utter rubbish, i'd just like to say.

Id just like to point out that views on sexuality change depending on the society at the time.

In the 1920s-40s marriage was more of an ownership ritual (rather than
the mushy googoo romance that it is today) -- that a woman marries a
man not for love, but for financial security (where am I going with
this? -- just wait). Now a man and woman could be married, but they
could have love afairs with people of their same sex (or opposite --
and it wouldnt be considered adultory). Men could have a "good friend"
and women could have a "secret lover".

Did you know Rosevelt's (Maybe im mixing up presidents here) wife
davled into lesbianism? and Rosevelt had many mistresses (in fact he
died in one of his mistresses arms).

I guess I just want to bring attention to the fact that history doesnt
follow a straight line (it hops back and forth). So 50 years ago
homosexuality wasnt frowned upon. Only recently has it come under fire.

So with this in mind I tend not to hold any opinion about the subject
-- you are born the way you are. If you have your own opinion thats
fine.

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Posting And You

consider fat people. fat to the extent that they have trouble reaching around to wipe their own arse.

now, we were all born with a natural desire to eat, so we could all be fatties, but i get the impression that most of the posters here would understand were i to say that the thought of sex with one was repulsive to me. sexy and fat are two words that i'd put together much less often than repulsive and fat.

so, bearing that in mind, what's so hard to accept about Orph's opinion on gays? ok, so some people are born that way, just like some people are born to be fat, but i'm still not going to have sex with a fatty, no matter how natural their condition is.

apologies to any gay fatties :razz:

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i eat paint

Gwil said:
This thread is complete and utter rubbish, i'd just like to say.

Totally agree. My general attidute is one of laissez-faire more than anything- you stay out of my personal buisness and we're good. Still sometimes feel like at least defending it though.

Orpheus said:
Thats the last thing I have to say this morning on the topic. Everyone seems to have completely ignored my post on the teaching process. I think it sums it up rather neat and tidy. No loop holes. And absolutely no room for a counter argument.

You can't argue with it because it's a fallacious argument.

You are basically saying that for any activity X, if you are exposed to X for long enough, then you will either participate in X or become acclimated to X in such a way that it is not an issue any more.

The problem comes from the fact that your premise doesn't really have anything to do with your conclusion. In other words, yes, I agree whole-heartedly with your premise. I cannot argue that, as it seems to be sound.

Let's assume, for a moment though, that this is indeed the case- that people have been desensitized to homosexuality in the same way as your example shows.

You don't ever account for a way for a child of a butcher to still not agree with the practices.

You also imply that in our society, people are exposed to homosexuality in a manner that it will desensitize them.

Ergo, according to your argument, it is impossible for anyone who has been exposed to homosexuals in any way to NOT agree with homosexuality, since the only two routes you supply are participating in the activity, or becoming acclimated to the activity.

Personally, I know that this is complete and utter crap when it comes to homosexuality. My family is essentially of the mindset that you have, and if they knew about me, I would probably be out of the family for all intensive purposes. So you can assume that I wasn't "taught" by them. I grew up in a very Catholic environment (grade-school and all), and I'm sure you're aware of Catholics views on homosexuality. Again, I sure as hell wasn't "taught" there.

For a long time I had contemplated killing myself (literally) over this, since I WASN'T being told ANYWHERE that it was a "normal thing". Pretty much everywhere I turned, I was being fed the fact that I was an abomination, and that I was somehow less of a human because of the way I felt.

Apparently, preservation of life was more important to me, so I essentially dropped the faith and have been living a lie with my family for the past 20-some odd years. Hoo-f**king-ray.

I'm sure that this probably won't change you opinion, but I don't really care. You seem to be forgetting the very simple fact that there are still PEOPLE behind the whole thing. Living, breathing, feeling humans.

One fact remains that none of us can debate. Until there is enough incentive to find the cause, there will be no cure. Homosexuality is here to stay otherwise.
/ story

If you cannot come up with one solid reason for why homosexuals are evil and deserve to be eliminated (either through eugenics or "rehabilitation" or what-have-you) then I think that you should at least stop proclaiming the evils of it and the need for something to be done about it.

You imply that being a homosexual is an evil. Fair enough, that's your opinion. I just want you to realize that A) What two consenting adults do in the privacy of their homes has absolutely nothing to do with you, and B) In the same sense that we (homosexuals) have a choice to act on how we feel, you too have the choice to continue propogating the hatred.

Anyways, that's all I have to say on this issue.

---

Shameless plug.

I think, what bothers me most about this:

The world sucks. Thats the bottom line. Nothing is ever going to change that aspect but, you can minimize the impact in some ways. Putting homosexuality aside for the moment, but keep in mind that I am indeed still talking about it as well, The world picks on "different" people. Thats a hardship that is never going to change. Case in point:

I would consider myself stereotypical normal. If you looked up normalcy in some book, I would fall somewhere in the mainstream definition. The problem is, I being normal, get picked on constantly because I dislike abnormal. It is becoming more and more of a hostile action to dislike abnormalcy.

Now think about that a few minutes. In another decade or two, the rolls will completely swap sides to where if you do not accept all abnormal concepts, then YOU are the new abnormalcy.

What chaps my ass is that no one seems to want to accept that being free to be "different" has a price. It might be a small price in some regions. It might be a stiff penalty in others.

My son for example. He has ear rings in many locations on his body. He must have 8 or 10 visible to the naked eye alone. He gripes all the time that 1) no one will take him seriously. and 2) that he cannot find nothing but s**t jobs.

I tell him constantly "Lose the faggot ear rings. If you want to be treated with respect and be able to apply and receive better jobs, show some respect for yourself"

He tells me that its not fair. He should not be penalized for his choice of attire (<--Spelled wrong methinks)

I ask him "Why do you wear them if you know that they will cause you this problem you complain about?"

His responses usually follow this line of thinking: "I should be allowed to. End of story" or "I do it for the shock value" ( This he says most often... Shock value. :rolleyes: )

In the end, he doesn't want to pay the price for his actions.

I know, that in a perfect world, no one would ever dream of picking on strangeness but the sad fact is, IT HAPPENS SO DEAL WITH IT!!!

I have to deal with people looking down there noses every day for my narrow views. I could keep my mouth shut and avoid the ridicule, but thats not how I wish to live.

I am just as proud of my normalcy, as anyone else is about their differences.

Try walking in my shoes before you condemn my viewpoint, or the right to even have it.

I will prolly live to see the day where my views are the new strangers.

In the end Monkee... Friendships last just as long as one of the parties still wants it to. If my narrow views bother you to the point of wanting to not be friends anymore, thats your call. I will remain faithful to our past, and what I considered to be "Friends"

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The best things in life, aren't things.

I call an end to discussion on this topic. Ordinary Americans have
trouble dealing with each others views on homosexuality, and threads
like this only serve to increase tension between the two camps.

Endless argument could not change opinion (read:
not FACTS) between the two parties. As long as these discussions
continue to be based on "homosexuality is right/wrong because of reason
x/y" I do not think they are informed, relevant or even agreeable
topics of discussion.

I actively discourage this topic being raised as it only serves to
demonstrate the worst traits of people and encourages animosity between
the community. I won't stamp on it, but I don't look on this topic in a
favourable light. It has been argued a thousand times before, and as
was said, leaves all concerned with a bitter taste in their mouths.

American society will reach it's own logical conclusions in time.

Sadly, even though I hate the topic, I find that passing on misinformation is almost as infuriating as not doing anything at all.

My only fear is, that I might persuade someone to think like myself. That, I couldn't live with. Whenever I post, negatively, or positively, its meant to be in such a way as to ONLY inform people how I see things. I NEVER want to persuade someone into my way of thinking because quite honestly, its a dead end direction.

People like me are dying off. For good or ill, damned few have the fortitude to hold onto their beliefs even unto total excommunication from ones own peers.

Even if it costs me every friendship I presently have, I will never waiver in my views BUT, I am so glad that there are truly open minded people. If there weren't, I'd have no friends at all by now.

It takes a heart of gold to forgive me sometimes.

People, if you do not take any other advice I ever give, take this piece to the grave. "Do not listen to folks like me. I have lived a miserable life and I would never wish that upon another fellow human being. Especially one I like as much as you guys."

/ my part in this thread.

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The best things in life, aren't things.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Nickelplate</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>I also think that people will defend other people for doing whatever they want, because if they admit that another person is wrong, they might have to admit that they are. Otherwise, why would such straight people even care how homosexuals are treated, as long as it doesn't interfere with their OWN hedonism?</DIV></DIV>

Perhaps because they actually care about other people? Even people different to themselves?

Even people whose sexual practices disgust them (and hey, what about all the straight couples who enjoy sodomy; and waterworks, and fisting...)?

No, surely not. That would be a Christian attitude :rolleyes:

It might seem hard to believe, but some people genuinely act from motivations other than self-interest.

I think Monqui puts it best:

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>there are still PEOPLE behind the whole thing. Living, breathing, feeling humans.</DIV></DIV>

I don't think christians have anything agianst fisting and all that, now premarital fisting is another thing.

Humans act on something OTHER than the natural instinct of self preservation? So we are different than animals now?

My whole opinion on all this is that only heterosexuality is okay, between consenting adults (married, if you want to carry it further). HOWEVER, i think that all sexual preferences will be accepted in the future, with the exception of the forcible and paedo kinds.

All i wanted to know is if you think that other S.P's will be accepted in society at another time.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

I can respect people's opinions but I would think that as intelligent as most of you are there would be more open mindeness around here. One of you wrote that gay parents should not be allowed to addopt. This is bulls**t. it's something I find very very insulting even if it is "your" opinoin. I could go off right now but I won't. I don't feel like getting into an argument about this right now. So instead I'll leave you with this. Homosexuals are loving humans just like you all are. They should be allowed to show affection in public and raise children. I find adoption to be a great thing and you should too. If you really believe that gays should not have adoption rights then you are stupid ignorant fool.

Nickelplate said:
All i wanted to know is if you think that other S.P's will be accepted in society at another time.

no, history never repeats itself.

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i eat paint

pound for pound, i've known many more respectable gays than respectable straights.

shrug

---

the players tried to take the field
the marching band refused to yield

Spartan: How does it NOT mess a kid up to have two parents of the same sex? He will be SO confused by the time he's old enough to have friends raised by "normies."

I don't think single parents or gay parents should be able to adopt a child.

Fishy: huh? Yes it does!

Bewbies: Straight people take niceness for granted. Gay people are used to being kicked, so they are more conscious of other people's feelings.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

yes, well, a stupid question deserved a stupid answer.

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i eat paint

OMFG! Are you joking me Nickle? They can raise a child perfectly well, sometimes even better than hetersexual couples. Have you ever in your entire life seen a gay couple?