In your opinion, what is it that separates a good mapper, from a great one?

OBLIGATORY MESSAGE: I know some of you are politically correct minded enough to not want to participate in this poll..in a way i can understand why,in a way i cannot. you are not only cheating yourself out of being able to speak up, but you are also showing others that past replies you may have made about them might not be the truth. i know most of us are mature enough to handle the truth, as such i know none of my maps will prolly make it into the top 25, let alone top 10.. but truth be told, with only 10 slots to fill, that will most definitely leave several dozen members also NOT ON THE LIST!! speak up, nominate your favorites.. lets allow the pit as a whole to celebrate its best efforts.

I know you are going to be tempted to name maps outside the pit, but seriously guys, those people have contributed nothing to the pit, and as such do not truly deserve recognition within this particular thread.

we have a plethora of dedicated members, many of which go without the praise they rightfully deserve.

this thread is dedicated to the snarkpit and its members.

if its alright, i will keep Tally once per page as this thread progresses, to keep it as up-to-date as possible, taking into account new maps are released daily.

also.. if you post a top 10, and alter it later.. please be kind enough to mention it so the tally can be changed accordingly.

be sure, to answer BOTH questions, as they are indicative to your responses for each separately.

remember, try to be as concise as possible when stating your opinion on what exactly you feel it takes to be a great mapper.

thanks in advance for all your replies.. those of you who ignore this thread for whatever reason.. i at least will be taking notes.. next time i need an honest opinion of my maps.. you will not be on the list of reliable sources... what others do with the info, is their business.

This is in responce to the what separates question..... [as i am in a rush but want to answer at least one of them]

What i think separates a good mapper from a great one, is the ability to de#istinguish and fix the problems/ disformities in thier work, also to be able to use what they have to thier advantage
e.g. if an area has low r_speeds about 2-300 and objects can be added to make it look better, then they add in the essential detail.
Also, one of the most important, is the essence of detail used, and if it matches and fits/ blends in.

Once again, i am sorry that i have only answered one question, i will answer the other asap.

One who melds gameplay and look into a map, I can't stand pretty maps that get boring within minutes nor do I like some cruddy killbox with supposed great gameplay, if it looks like ass I'll stop playing it after a round or two seeing as I'll give the mapper the same respect for playing as he did effort on the thing. I don't find it fun when there is no theme to immerse myself in, if I wanted to just kill stuff I would, but that's not why I play the games, I play them for the teamwork, visuals, atmosphere and so much more.

Great mapper: Melds gameplay, aesthetics, blah blah blah. Singleplayer maps have a good flow with monster placement and some good scripting, along with all maps following a cohesive theme. Multiplayer maps have a "deep" layout, encouraging constant movement along with extensive variation in height and strategies. Following a post I read in some other thread, I would agree that great mappers tend to be the most popular ones and quite often move on to "the Industry". Attitude also plays a big role.

Good mapper: Has a good grasp of the technical skills of mapping, along with most gameplay concepts. Just can't really "get the right blend" of elements, or can't really finish a map for their lives due to a variety of problems, hard-drive crashes, whatever! Poor them! :smile:

<A name=top>In your opinion, what is it that separates a good mapper, from a great one?</A>

Er, a great mapper is better than a good mapper. Or were you after my definitions of both? :wink:

IMO a great mapper relies on others at least as much as himself to bring the map to fruition. the ability to distinguish between good advice and just general comments is a gift most mappers fail miserably at. you also have to have a firm grasp on exactly what it takes to pull off your specific type of map as well, especially since all game modes are not created equal.. as such, just because you can make a decent single-player map, by no means guarantees you can pull off a well balanced multi-player map.

bottom line, if an author cannot listen to his peers, not just hear them but listen.. he will always be just shy of greatness.

we have mappers who never listen to their peers, we have mappers who do.. worse of all, we have mappers who used to listen, but are now beyond our meager contributions in their minds.. these mappers IMO have fallen from grace.

that my friends is how i see greatness.

Great Mapper: Will release beta after beta to get his map as good as he/she can. Will gladly talk to the public about his map and see what they think is wrong with it and at least put it into consideration [ not saying he has to change his map ]

Good Mapper: Makes map that work functionably and look decent but haven't thought about their placement of items monsters etc. And leave obvious mistakes behind. Don't take the time to fix small things.

Hope thatr helps =\

You really think there are people round here like that Orph? There are
people who have developed greatly through their time at the pit but
most of them who still actively map, do request and take advice from
others.

I don't think you will get many / anyone listing their top 10 maps from
only snarkpit members, as most people's top 10's will probably be made
up mostly of EARLY custom maps that recieved a lot of play. I'm having
trouble thinking of maps I've played to the extent of being able to
enter them justifiably into a top 10 that are made by people I know :sad:
I could do it based on visuals, but visuals alone don't get a map into
many people's all time favourites list.

dod_belfort:Gorbachev
The detail and representatio of the items placed are truely fantastic

persian letters: C Junkie
The feeling of this map is brought very well, you would know if you checked out the third screenie, here

forsaken: Reno
This is one of my fav's, the way that it is layed out is excellent

Eclipse: KFS
The use of lighting and texturing is fab. No wonder he got the job at raven :smile:

no patience: Orph
True HL level, the layout and style of this map makes this imo, a true hl level. an all in wonder factor.

dm_hogwarts: $loth
Don't mean to be big headed, but i love my map because i always get the feel of hogwarts when i play it.[ it will be done soon]

DM_ominous: crackerjack
This one explains itself

revenant:jinx
True DMC fun :biggrin:

Cliff complex: WC
The first pic has a feeling to make you go 'woa'

broken palace: Finger
This map looks great, and feels great, you feel as if you are actually in japan.

No particlar order

ReNo said:
I don't think you will get many / anyone listing their top 10 maps from only snarkpit members, as most people's top 10's will probably be made up mostly of EARLY custom maps that recieved a lot of play. I'm having trouble thinking of maps I've played to the extent of being able to enter them justifiably into a top 10 that are made by people I know :sad: I could do it based on visuals, but visuals alone don't get a map into many people's all time favourites list.

Erm....the only oldish custom maps i played before the snarkpit were cr*ppy cs ones like 1337_assault, iceoworld, and poolday. these are definatly NOT on my top 10.

But you have even listed maps that don't have beta versions released,
and judging on pictures alone seems somewhat pre-emptive to me - what
if the layout and weapon placement suck?

I guess to me, for a map to be in my list of greats, I need to have
seen it, fragged on it, and been impressed by it. Its also difficult
for non-HLDM maps to be in my list as its the mod I primarily play(ed),
and one of the only ones I've ever played many custom maps for.

I say voting for your own maps is perfectly acceptable if you are
comfortable with doing it, and do it for the right reasons. For
instance you vote for your own map as not only are you really proud of
making it, but because it succeeds in recreating a scene (Hogwarts)
that you are aiming for. I think thats a good reason to vote for your
own work, so there is no problem there.

EDIT: Glad you liked forsaken by the way :wink:

here is my list, in no particular order.

• Broken Palace
• Repair Bay 4
• Apotheosis
• DoD_Belfort
• Torrent
• Vernon
• Cataclysm
• Revenant
• The PitCrew map
• PS_Splinter

i would also like to point out, i have favorites from people who either have not posted, not released, or not finished maps, namely..

• Scary Jeff
• Cassius
• Alien_Sniper
• KornFlakes
• Doc Brasso

these guys are just as good, they just don't realize it just yet.

in creating this list, i want each person to understand, just because you didn't make it onto the top 10, by no means says you are unworthy.. look at the bright side, if we had a top 50, you could have made it... along with me :smile:

ReNo said:
You really think there are people round here like that Orph? There are people who have developed greatly through their time at the pit but most of them who still actively map, do request and take advice from others.

if you are referring to the portion of my reply i think you are, the answer is yes.. i would never post something i didn't believe to be true.. even if i am the only person who believes it.

secondly, this thread is 100% dedicated to the snarkpit, and its efforts over the life of half-life 1.. the game will prolly die off with the release of HL2, and i would like some sort of a dedication to those who have poured their hearts into this site.

if you can ONLY measure greatness in maps you have played.. post only those... you need not post 10 of them to make your point clear.. my goal is.. the old time maps have already received their dues... its our turn.

if you have 2 maps you feel are great, post only 2.. as long as they are from members of this site.

sigh I think you guys over looked the major element that makes a mapper great... (iTs In BiG bOlD lEtTeRs :razz: )

Good Mapper: Knows what he's doing, and knows what he wants to build -- and doesn't lack skill (hence the name "good" mapper). Generally though, the maps he builds tend to percieve his way of game play, or focus on an element of mapping he was trying to learn. (such as, making a map that goes for full body count. Apealing to some gamers, but not all.) He tries his best, yet his worlds look a little bland... and he's not sure why. Can lack texture editing skills.

Great Mapper: He knows how to make a map that has a good size game in the map, world looks good (not over done though), and most importantly...

His maps are FUN TO PLAY.

I really only have one faveorite map from the snark pit. I prefer single player than multi (or co-op :smile: )

Minimicus

As an extra question: Should we add are veiws as to how maps should be designed?

I prefer leaving it to the other mappers to come up with ways to design their maps, without that extra leeway given we might never see some really unique stuff that could one day be the norm. But like many of my own projects the majority will never see the light of day but it's good to try.

P.S. Thanks for the interest in belfort :razz:

I never thought anyone would pick me, so I'm quite humbly happy orph :smile:

as for my top 10 I'm going to think about it for a while. It would rock if lep could PM all the accounts about this thread. That way it gets more publicity.

My top 10 in no particular order... might not be 10 either. :smile:

Echo by ReNo (Great flow, interesting details)

Minimicus by SlayerA (Awesome gameplay, wonderful usage of entities and scripting)

Coil by kol (Good architecture + good lighting makes even the original textures look nice)

Nightwatch: Chapter 4 + Hazard Course by MrBen. (Haven't played but Jesus Christ almighty it's so beautiful. Awesome architecture, lighting and textures.)

Fool's Paradise by Cassius (Also haven't played but the cliffs might even be superior to Campaignjunkie's. The whole thing just looks spinky... maybe that's his l337 video card talking, though.)

I tried to find more maps that I've played and liked, but I haven't played a lot, so sowwiez.

Great mapper: MrBen (Consistently awesome in every aspect of his mapping... I suppose that's why I'm the president of his fan club.)

Good mapper: Erm... no examples... they're able to achieve nice-looking environments with a slight grasp of gameplay, but unable to achieve a large replayability factor. So they look pretty, but you get desensitized to the beauty and bored of it all overall... just like a fine woman... :smile:

Ferret said:
It would rock if lep could PM all the accounts about this thread. That way it gets more publicity.

i see this thread dying soon, the enthusiasm level is staggering.

i had great ambitions for this thread, many here truly deserve the praise.. i never would have imagined that so many of our members really don't share this thought.

tis sad when you think about it really.

shuffles back to bed

You might try actually writing the questions as part of the thread. It took me at least 5 minutes trying to figure out what the heck you meant by the first post. It made no sense until I reread the title!

As for what separates a good mapper from a great one, my response is in the other thread on this subject.

As for top 10 maps I really can't say. It would take a lot of thinking to get that sorted. Sulsa's Chaocity3, Gollum's GMDM2 (Apothesis), and Gasworks (yes you heard me) are definitely up there, but I can't really say for the rest. Orph's No Patience is probably in the top 10 too.

I haven't played enough recent maps to make any good judgements, especially for hldm, but I can tell you that the best maps for CS are dust, cbble, piranesi, and aztec, the best maps for DoD are switch, avalanche, and caen, and the best map for NS is eclipse.

A few of the HLDM maps that would be somewhere in my top 10 from 2002:

lost_village
cataclysm
eden
scorched
x-bounce
enraged

sadly I've played many more s**tty HLDM maps than good ones, such as rats, turkeyburgers, fling, killbox, lurkbox...

mazemaster said:
You might try actually writing the questions as part of the thread. It took me at least 5 minutes trying to figure out what the heck you meant by the first post. It made no sense until I reread the title!

sighs

how can that be? its the title of a thread that makes me look inside in the first place.. it may appear as if i comment in each by my postcount, but its hardly the case.

sighs again

there are only 10 spots to use.. what i cannot fathom is, why the hesitation guys.. we all are mature enuff to understand that of 10 spots not everyone will get one.

[edit] this thread is 100% dedicated to snarkpits mappers.. any nominations from non-pit members will be ignored.. gasworks and lost village are top rate, but they already got their dues ages ago.

I intend to reply but as i'm at work, and without a net connection at home until August 7th I can't browse through my map folder and download any I haven't already got. Off the top of my head though and in no particular order:

ReNo: Echo was really good and different from most other DM maps in aesthetics when it was released.

Gollum: GMDM2, simply because of the amount of stuff going on in there and the sheer quality overall. No section felt neglected in design and appearance.

Devious: Yeah, I know he doesn't post here on Snarkpit, but he's a very good mapper friend of mine and were always consulting and bouncing ideas/betas off each other. His map flf_shroud is an entire city block with enterable builidings with a consistent level of quality throughout. Great looking and r_speeds are surprisingly well controlled for a map of its scale.

Many other mappers that I can't list right now as I don't have any of their maps to hand. Other mappers I respect more for what they offer the community, for example Orpheus has helped many mappers here on the site.

This is the list as it stands currently.. it may be not 100% accurate cause some people posted and didn't truly vote, just commented.. and sifting out the non-pit members almost through me a curve :sad:

try hard to refrain from nominating non-pit maps.. or at least highlight them as non-pit maps so i don't have to search for them..

note:the name being mentioned means 1 vote.. any subsiquent votes render it a number after the hyphen.

Apotheosis-2
Broken_Palace-2
Cataclysm-2
Cliff complex-
Coil-
Dm_Hogwarts-
DM_Ominous-
DoD_Belfort-2
Echo-2
Eclipse-
Eden-
Fools Paradise-
Forsaken-
Minimicus-
Nightwatch Hazard Course-
No_Patience-
Persian_Letters-
PS_Splinter-
Repairbay 4-
Revenant-2
The PitCrew Map-
Torrent-
Vernon-

[edit] i would like to mention a little known, but useful program for list sorting.. check this out.. i have been using it for a while now.. its tiny, but very useful..

There is no way I could put an order to this, or even pick a number 1,
but here are various maps that I feel deserve recognition as some of
the best that snarkpit members have to offer...

---

Apotheosis (GMDM2)

By Gollum

For obvious reasons this deserves to be in everyone's collection. After
the input of a 1000 men (possibly a couple of ladies...and a fair few
less men) and the mammoth efforts of an overly dedicated mapper, what
is almost certainly the most entity heavy deathmatch map ever arrived
at the pit.

---

Merlin

By Peter Manson

I'm only going to list one of his maps, but Peter Manson's collection
of releases contains a veritable hoarde of great levels. Merlin makes
my list as it contains everything that makes his maps so cool -
marvelous outdoor scenery, huge arenas, and novel special effects.

Orph said not to list non-pit members, but Peter actually is one,
albeit one with very little interest in HL and so apparently one with
no inclination to post or otherwise contribute.

---

Eclipse

By Andrew Weldon (KungFuSquirrel)

Andrew's work is greater than the sum of its parts - its very hard to
pin-point a single map from his collection that can do justice to his
momentous contribution to the mapping community. And that contribution
is not limited to the snarkpit either, one doesn't need to look very
hard to find his name mentioned many many times in waters outside of
our own. As a non-NS player, I find it hard to list this map as one of
his best, but it has without a doubt done more for him than any of his
other maps, and it sure as hell looks the part!

---

dm_Osiris

By Adam Hawkins

Again, choosing only one map feels unfair, especially considering I
haven't played any of the FLF stuff which makes up the bulk of his
portfolio (funnily enough, I'm rectifying that by downloading the mod
as I type this!). I only choose this one as it has one of the best
initial "Whoa!" factors ever due to how extremely well the outside
region is handled. Inside is perhaps a bit of a let down, and the 4
sided symmetry of the map makes it somewhat less interesting that it
could otherwise have been, but these don't stop it being one hell of an
egyptian map and fodder for impressive screenshots.

F**king excellent weapon placement too :wink:

---

Legacy (part of Issues)

By
Campaignjunkie
/ MrBen

Doubtlessly the most visually stunning single player level I've come
across, Legacy just oozes the sort of quality that many retail games
lack. Unfortunately short alone, legacy is the best way to get a taste
of what to come from Nightwatch, and of course see what we all missed
out on by the death of Dark Truths. This is a masterpiece by two people
who know how to use the HL engine WAAAAY too well, and the sprinkling
of humour just rounds off what is a visual and gaming treat.

Yes I know, thats only 5, I might pop another 5 in later :smile:

---

Legacy (part of Issues)
By
Campaignjunkie
/ MrBen

Doubtlessly the most visually stunning single player level I've come
across, Legacy just oozes the sort of quality that many retail games
lack. Unfortunately short alone, legacy is the best way to get a taste
of what to come from Nightwatch, and of course see what we all missed
out on by the death of Dark Truths. This is a masterpiece by two people
who know how to use the HL engine WAAAAY too well, and the sprinkling
of humour just rounds off what is a visual and gaming treat.

You should have seen the state it was in when Ben was doing it. Just ask CJ. :razz:

I haven't read everything so my opinion may simply be a repeat of others... oh well

I don't actually play enough to be able to pick out a top ten list of maps, so I think I will confine myself to the Good vs. great question.

A great mapper is one who can make you believe in the world he has tried to create. The map will make sense in every way, and make you feel that there is more out there to be explored if only you could see around the next bend, or break down that locked door.

A great mapper has exquisite attention to detail, but is aware and respectful of the technical limitations of his medium. The great one knows which details will be most important to the perception they is trying to create, and does not hesitate to cull useless clutter.

A great mapper uses architecture and lighting as in integral part of influencing game play, not merely as eye candy. He knows where to place the shadows, and where to create a pool of light to bring out the best in functionality and aesthetics from his architecture.

IMO these are the attributes to aspire to. A good mapper is one who has an excellent technical grasp of all the same fundamental concepts and techniques which are utilized by the master, but lacks the creative ingenuity and artistic flair to use his skills to their best advantage.

A good mapper is one who makes maps which other people play and deem a good map.

A great mapper is one who can make a map which people will think is good and find something original about the map. A great mapper is also someone who wants to help others make maps, and share their knowledge.

Now I think we have come to a slight conclusion on what makes a great and good mapper lets get on to the poll :biggrin:

In no particular oder.

Broken Palace - This has a flow like no other.

Apotheosis - This map was thought out so well, I cant begin to explain its complexity and beauty. Great job.

dm_osiris - This is one of purtiest maps you will with a desert theme. Though some areas are a bit dull, its a great map.

dm_fairytale - Brings me back to the younger days with all the Disney movies. I really like the shape and architecture of this map, I am hoping it plays aswell as it looks.

Odins Guard - This map inspired alot of my work, including dm_ominous and tm_abandoned. I always looked to this map for ideas.

Forsaken - My favorite Reno map. Great job man.. I just wish PX_Selfless was released so we could all awe at its greatness.

ns_forsaken - This is quite the purtiest map I have seen for NS, the atmosphere is just amazing.

issues: legacy - One of the greatest SP episodes you will play. Beauty with gameplay. Great job guys.

Kage_Prototype said:
You should have seen the state [Legacy] was in when Ben was doing it. Just ask CJ. :razz:

cries for hours, then commits suicide multiple times

(why the pain and agony? Read about it HERE!)

Broken Palace by Finger
dm_fairytale by Ferret
de_plaka by Pericolos0 (even though he kind of just popped in recently)
Zombie! by Cassius
Apothesis by Gollum

(umm, I'll post 5 more later)

Have any of you ever heard of a map called dry_dock, found it on GA ages ago, it only got 9 but I feel it should of really got 10. Its a stunning map to play, in the same viene as chaocity 3. I'll upload it if anyones interested. Like I said, it rocks.

If I had realized that Duncan was going to set the standard by posting a mini-review for his votes I woulda beat him to the punch already by doing one 1<SUP>st</SUP>.. But not to be out done.. I will now re-post my votes, with the corresponding subtitles :biggrin: .

whispers Damn you Duncan, you made this work, it was supposed to be fun

here is my list, in no particular order.

[list]
[*] Broken Palace
by Finger
I think that this review about sums up everything i could possibly say about this map.. the reason its one of my top 10? Finger allowed me to privately critique it on several occasions, and in each case he used virtually every suggestion i made. Damned few authors give away that level of credit when it comes to the construction of their maps... Finger will always be on my personal list of "GREAT" mappers for his willingness to be so receptive.

---

</LI>[/list]

[list]
[*] Repair Bay 4
by KunFuSquirrel
Considering that I was only a member of Snarkpit for about 3 months at the time of this maps release, and that I was relatively unknown to Andrew at the time, it may surprise you just how much this map ended up being one of my chosen favorites. I don;t honestly recall exactly how much influence I had over its creation, but what I do remember is, it contains virtually every element that I consider important in a successful HLDM map. People have stated, and Andrew himself concurs that he went on to make better maps, but nothing he created since has made any sort of an impact on me like this map did. his subsequent releases looked more polished, but (and i am only referring to his HLDM releases) none of them had the total packaged deal this map contained. each release missed key elements that Repair Bay 4 contained. For this reason alone I nominated this map as his best.

---

</LI>[/list]

[list]
[*] Apotheosis
by Gollum
Considering the time invested alone, this map would warrant a top 10 slot.. the fact that it was worth waiting for is just the icing on the cake.. i think that this review about says everything possible to support this claim.

---

</LI>[/list]

[list]
[*] DoD_Belfort
by Gorbachev
You would never know it by reading his read me.txt just exactly how much effort each member contributed to this map since it generally wads us all into one marvelous group.. (just kidding gorby) I chose this map as one of my top 10 for much the same reason as the others, the author was extremely receptive to advice, and most especially, he was able to sift through it all to grasp the best pieces of them to incorporate.. The final result was, and is quite evident to the eye..

---

</LI>[/list]

[list]
[*] Torrent
by ReNo
Another author who's read me.txt leaves something to be desired none the less in spite of his cutting corners on his thankyou's the map does not reflect this habit continuation :biggrin: .. This map has everything an arena map needs to be complete, and the fact that the author is more receptive than most to suggestions just increases its value IMO.. In spite of what others may believe, this map is the pinnacle of Duncan's efforts in mapping thus far. I cannot wait to see what happens with HL2.

---

</LI>[/list]

[list]
[*] Vernon
by Cash Car Star
Think of me what you will, but the primary reason that I chose this map as one of my top 10 was because of the editor used in its creation.. Anyone who can overcome the handicap of using such a horrible thing as QuArk deserves praise. The fact that the map looks and plays so well only augments that theory.. such wonders created from such crap..

---

</LI>[/list]

[list]
[*] Cataclysm
by Yak_Fighter
This map holds a place for me mostly cause of the long standing relationship with the author.. I have known Yak for almost 5 years. I have watched him grow from lowly prefabber, to a fabber of note, to finally achieving something of value in mapping.. This map is his crowning achievement.. considering the silly fool refuses to release anything more not withstanding :biggrin: .. His subsequent NON-releases show a definite upward trend.. I cannot wait to see the next installment to the Yak_Fighter lineup.

---

</LI>[/list]

[list]
[*] Revenant
by Jinx
An author who knows how to fill out a proper read me.txt credits :biggrin: .. Seriously though, this author definitely shows a receptiveness to ideas posed by peers. I just noticed, this is the 3rd arena map I have chosen as my top 10. /me wonders if its a subliminal message somehow..

---

</LI>[/list]

[list]
[*] The PitCrew map
by The PitCrew
This map, had to make it into my top 10 is for no other reason than its significance in demonstrating what teamwork can achieve.. The ability to produce maps separately is a difficult task, the ability to pull so many members together into one work of art id phenomenal.. This IMO is reason enuff to make it a top 10 map.

---

</LI>[/list]

• PS_Splinter
  by Ferret
  Why did I chose this map? thwacks to noggin OH YEAH, cause Ferret told me to. Seriously though, I chose this map primarily for the same reason as the others, the authors ability to accept feedback, and to incorporate it effectively.. many may feel that is not a good enuff reason to nominate something as important as a top 10 nomination, but if they disagree, then they can just nominate another for their own reasons ;P </LI>

Again, I would like to stress, that just because you didn't make it onto my list, by no means signifies you unworthy.. with

only 10 slots its hard to narrow the field enuff.. if you doubt me.. try making your own list and see :heee:

Brought over from previous page:

This is the list as it stands currently.. it may be not 100% accurate cause some people posted and didn't truly vote, just commented.. and sifting out the non-pit members almost through me a curve :sad:

try hard to refrain from nominating non-pit maps.. or at least highlight them as non-pit maps so i don't have to search for them..

note:the name being mentioned means 1 vote.. any subsiquent votes render it a number after the hyphen.

Apotheosis-5
Broken_Palace-4
Cataclysm-2
Cliff complex-
Coil-
DE_Plaka-
DM_Fairytale-
Dm_Hogwarts-
DM_Ominous-
DM_Osiris (hawkins)-2
DoD_Belfort-2
Echo-2
Eclipse-2
Eden-
Fools Paradise-
Forsaken-2
Legacy-2
Merlin-
Minimicus-
Nightwatch Hazard Course-
No_Patience-
NS_Forsaken-
Odins_Guard-
Persian_Letters-
PS_Splinter-
Repairbay 4-
Revenant-2
The PitCrew Map-
Torrent-
Vernon-
Zombie-


[edit] i would like to mention a little known, but useful program for list sorting.. check this out.. i have been using it for a while now.. its tiny, but very useful..

Here's my top 10 list in no particular order

dm_Quicksand

dm_fairtale

Abandoned

Seneca

Torrent

Vanguard

Odin's Guard

Eclipse

Veil

Apotheosis (gmdm2)

I like so many more but these are my favorites of my favorites.

Top 10 list, in no particular order

Persian Letters

Nightwatch: Chapter 4

Horizon

De_Zeus

Thanto

Flatshaded (working title)

Revenant

Project Genesis: Chapter 6

Cataclysm

Sj_castle

No particular order:

ns_forsaken
Nightwatch: Chapter 4
Persian Letters
ns_eclipse
Someplace Else
Legacy
Torrent
Nightwatch: Hazard Course
dod_belfort
ps_splinter

This is a little tough since I'll have to search for the exact titles (seen so many maps lately, my brain is swamped with words.) Anyways, in no particular order.

Apotheosis (gmdm2)
dmc_revenant
ns_eclipse
Broken Palace
Persian Letters
de_plaka
de_dam
Vernon
Torrent
Pitcrew Map

As much as I love belfort and would vote for it I don't think it's fair for me to vote my own map. I do appreciate all help I received and wonder how I ever had the patience to spend as much time on it as I have but I'll leave it off the list as there are many others much more deserving of a spot.

I'd vote, but, er...

laser dot trains over side of head, Simpsons/Skinner stylee

Well to be honest I haven't looked at any maps in the last year or so, and can't remember many off the top of my head. It was always the early maps like doublecross and rustmill that did it for me, as they're what I grew up with.

/me wonders who else got a reminder that they are allowed to have an opinion here

Orpheus said:
.. those of you who ignore this thread for whatever reason.. i at least will be taking notes.. next time i need an honest opinion of my maps.. you will not be on the list of reliable sources...

if my honest opinion is considered to be unreliable because i choose to believe that 'top 10' type things are a bit tacky, then i can live with it. i dont have all the mods required to play all the maps here, so any opinion that i did make would be skewed anyway.

and the difference between good and great. great is generally better.

Top ten map list in no particular order. That would be too much work :wink:

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Apotheosis (gmdm2) there is only one word to describe my reaction to this map: awe

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Torrent: This map has been an inspiration to me, along with much of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City><st1:place>ReNo</st1:place></st1:City>?s other work.

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dm_Revenant: Although hardly groundbreaking, an excellent little arena. I never really considered altering the standard DM load out until I played this map.

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TBH, I don?t play many custom maps except my own. As such, I find myself unable to fill a list of ten. I feel that adding maps I have not played simply degrades my regard for these three. I said no particular order, but that isn?t actually true either. These are my top three picks in the order listed, although I didn?t know it until I put them down.

These are maps that have influenced my style and inspired me to greater things. I cannot give higher praise than that.



Edit/ somehow none of the newlines are working

lep, you could always say something silly like the other old timers around here "No_Patience" is a top 10 map :rolleyes: yeah, right..

and fish, tacky or not, its past due for many hands around here to get their dues.. i could say something equally hurtful as in "if we had a model tournament you'd think it was ok then right?" but i am not heartless that way, cause in truth, i think you'd win it if we had..

allow those, who deserve a bit of payment, get theirs.. please,don't rain on the parade :/

Top 5/10 (no particular order)

DoD Pegasus Bridge - Agent Smith

Apotheosis (gmdm2) - Gollum

Eden - Peter Manson

Elixr - Reno

No_Patience - Orpheus

more soon...

Orpheus said:
those of you who ignore this thread for whatever reason.. i at least will be taking notes.. next time i need an honest opinion of my maps.. you will not be on the list of reliable sources...

... the hell? I refuse to believe anyone can be this serious about a forum post. It's the internet, get over it :razz:

Anyway, top few maps

Apotheosis (Gollum)
Temple (Jinx)
Broken Palace (Finger)
NS_Eclipse (KFS)
dod_Belfort(Gorb)
Vernon (CCS)
Pitcrew Map

There was one urban map by mazemaster I really liked, but it's not in his profile. So I can only assume he never released it :/

dod_belfort - Gorbachev

i only play DoD :razz:

That my maps have ANY place near the caliber of maps that are being selected here is astounding to me.

Best Maps to Be Shown Here:

I confess, I have not played any of these maps, save Forsaken, but the work that went into them and their visual quality is what I'm basing this on.

Belfort

No_Patience

Forsaken

Apotheosis

Pitcrew

Repair Bay Four

THANTO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Best Maps of All Time, in-Pit or Otherwise:

Stuka, DoD - A wonder of engineering.

Lobby, TS - A seemingly terrible layout turns out to be great fun.

Assault, CS - Probably the most effective map layout of all time, of any game, simply because of how much it changes the game flow.

Iceworld, CS - The work of a fool or a genius.

Apotheosis, HLDM(ish) - The amount of entity work here steamrolls anything else.

Pipeline, UP - Terrain this good, with such low r's, made by a program that Zevensoft himself invented (that Valve used, check out the Chateau credits) deserves infinite respect as the source of my inspiration.

Firestorm, UP - First map I worked with a mapper to texture, this is also a marvel of terraining. The mapper is now working at Gearbox.

I've been told I should be weighing in here, but I honestly don't think my opinion should carry too much weight as I haven't downloaded anything in quite some time and in fact don't even have HL installed. I'll just point out one of my favorites of what I haven't seen listed too much, and that is ReNo's Echo. It's nothing grandiose, just a smallish, tight, fast map that allows anyone to get their frag on. Great construction, and a small filesize means there's actually a shot of finding people playing it online. You can have a reasonable 1v1 or load it up to 8 and still have a good time. Let's face it, a large number of custom HLDM releases just don't seem to fit the playerloads that they will reasonably receive.

As for goor versus great, I think one of the major separations is just the personal devotion to the work. Constant analysis and tweaking of the work in progress in preparation for the final release, no matter how many people take note of it. I guess this definition is kind of applicable to everything, not just mapping.

fraggard said:

Orpheus said:
those of you who ignore this thread for whatever reason.. i at least will be taking notes.. next time i need an honest opinion of my maps.. you will not be on the list of reliable sources...

... the hell? I refuse to believe anyone can be this serious about a forum post. It's the internet, get over it :razz:

what is surprising is not that i typed this, but that you would not realize that i would think exactly this way :sad:

what people say, is not nearly as important or as obvious as what they do NOT say. for all my errors, no one can ever accuse me of subterfuge through avoidance. my position on any subject noteworthy is crystal clear.

i remember... a very long time.

Brought over from previous page:

This is the list as it stands currently.. it may be not 100% accurate cause some people posted and didn't truly vote, just commented.. and sifting out the non-pit members almost through me a curve :sad:

try hard to refrain from nominating non-pit maps.. or at least highlight them as non-pit maps so i don't have to search for them..

note:the name being mentioned means 1 vote.. any subsiquent votes render it a number after the hyphen.



[color=silver]Abandoned-
Apotheosis-11
Broken_Palace-6
Cataclysm-3
Cliff complex-
Coil-
DE_Dam-
DE_Plaka-2
De_zeus-
DM_Fairytale-3
Dm_Hogwarts-
DM_Ominous-
DM_Osiris (hawkins)-2
DM_Quicksand-
DoD_Belfort-6
DoD_Pegasus Bridge-
Echo-
Echo-2
Eclipse-3
Eden-2
Elixir-
Flatshade-
Fools Paradise-
Forsaken-3
Horizon-
Lagacy-
Legacy-2
Merlin-
Minimicus-
Nightwatch chapter 4-2
Nightwatch Hazard Course-2
No_Patience-3
NS_Eclipse-3
NS_Forsaken-2
Odins_Guard-2
Persian_Letters-4
Project genesis-
PS_Splinter-2
Repairbay 4-2
Revenant-5
Seneca-
Sj_castle-
Somplace_else-
Temple-
Thanto-
The PitCrew Map-4
Torrent-5
Vanguard-
Veil-
Vernon-3
Zombie-[/color]


[edit] i would like to mention a little known, but useful program for list sorting.. check this out.. i have been using it for a while now.. its tiny, but very useful..

I count more for dm_fairytale you little thief you :razz: (jk)

Ferret said:
I count more for dm_fairytale you little thief you :razz: (jk)

any assistance, is GREATLY appriciated..

keeping tally is hard :sad:

any other errors please speak up.

apparently, i'm a liar, as i waited until i was asked to vote. so there's not much point in me saying any more here.

i also read that i am to be judged on what i dont say, because what i dont say is more reliable. probably to do with me being a liar and all, but i'm still trying to figure it out.

as for raining on anyones parade by thinking chartshows are 'tacky', it would never have been mentioned if i'd been left alone under my rock, hatching new plans to undermine the forums by not posting anything.