HL2 delayed???

Well the rumors begin.
http://www.bluesnews.com/

if this is true then I would say that VALVe are getting too worried about cheats.

They could make substantial amounts more out of their work releasing it before christmas.

If I were in their shoes id release it before christmas even if it has a high posibility of cheats due to the code being leaked because of the money loss involved.

call it cynical, but... you have a game , thats 5 years old, but the public wants another, what do you do?

you post a release date, that cannot be achieved, then as the time approaches, someone hacks your system and steals a valuable piece of it...

i see a pattern here, even if no one else does..

i still hear a faint echo.. " when its done "

yet another.http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=3568878

i'm tellin'ya... they set themselves a date, they knew they couldn't meet, and this is the cover-up for it..

why else, would we have heard nada for so long, then BAM, a release date, to a game that didn't exist..

mumbles

i hope i am wrong, but, i have this feeling... i'm not wrong, much..

I was kinda thinking along the same lines Orph - this 'leak' is the perfect excuse to push back the release date without admitting that its just not ready yet.

April 2004 for Pete's sake?! Does it really take that long to replace cheat code stuff?

It depends on what section of the code to that has to be rewritten.  If a lot of the base classes were stolen, yeah, there'd be a s**tload to rewrite.

But would it take until April 2004? Bearing in mind that it took them 4 years to code the engine, build all the levels, make all the textures, sounds, gameplay & testing etc? Seems like their telling porky-pies to me :smile:

Damn that hacker it is very annoying, another release date they've failed.

It's made headline news on Yahoo now.

Delayed til April 2004

http://www.yahoo.com/s/118821

Yes, it's all a conspiracy...Valve knew they couldn't reach a deadline (as if those ever mattered to them before)...  :rolleyes:

To be honest, I did it.  I needed more time to finish the Snarkpit Map...

 

these people are going to force me to choose another allegiance..

 

i used to be very big on duke, couldn't wait for 4 to arrive, i put HL on hold for a while in anticipation.. but 4ever took that long, so i switched whole heartedly to HL..

Unreal is here, its here to stay, and with no delays.. its looking better and better every damned day..

sighs

this sux in to many ways...

[size=13]All this speculation that Valve has engineered the hacking incident just so they can delay a game release like all other devlopers do seems a tad far fetched. conspiracy theories are nearly always ridicules.[/size]

Heh, I wonder what's going to happen to all these HL2 mods now that they won't be able to work for 6 more months. I'm thinking a good amount of the mod teams will disband or lose interest. After all; they can't keep making unskinned weapon and vehicle models the whole time, can they?

Actually, alot of the game content can be produced.  Models, textures, sounds, storylines, concepts.  I agree though, I'm sure alot of them will fizzle out - which is good, because there are already like 1000000 gay cs/dod/ns clones out there.

You can produce all the content you want, but it still does you no good until you can do anything with it.

With the recent source code release (and now playable alpha leak) it's become quite apparent that the game is in no way ready for distribution.  The current (or at least, quite recent) source code build is playable, but barely.  It is glitchy, somewhat inefficient, and missing parts from much of the game data.  There is no way Valve could release the game by September 30th.  It's probably unlikely the game would be as polished as possible even if it went gold in December.

Valve almost undoubtedly did not engineer the hack as a publicity stunt, otherwise why would they release their own working software (source code at that) and HL2 content?  God knows game companies push back release dates all the time, it isn't as if Valve needed some ridiculous excuse such as this to tell people they needed time to produce a better game.

Is the theft the direct cause for the release date being moved?  Perhaps it's a factor, but it is certainly not the only reason.  More than likely, Valve is using it as a convenient scapegoat while they take all the time they need to produce a polished finished release.

well heres a statement, apparently from one of the people who compiled what they had hacked. Story can be found at:

http://www.planethalflife.com

"QUOTE"

To all those saying HL2 was delayed because of the hacking action, ill just remind you that what was leaked is what Valve has, nothing more and nothing less, so its pretty good to understand it wasnt finished yet.

Also I'd like to point out the E3 [demo] was one big fake by Valve. Ever tried to kill that soldier in physicstown ? Notice the door will still get kicked ? No scripted sequences ?

To everyone saying this is no Beta: I'd like to point out that THIS is what you wanted Valve to release on 9/30/03, theres no such thing as a much better release in Valves network!
To Valve: I suggest you stop lying to your customers about how much was stolen/compromised, or I'll have to release everything just to prove my point. And you know what you got, as I do. "End QUOTE"

 

so the plot thickens.

I don't see them using this as a scapegoat.  Roughly six days before the 30th, before the code leaked, Valve announced a delay of the game, with the excuse being "it's simply not done".  So, why are people so surprised, that this leak is lacking.

I think It's sad that so many people quickly turn on Valve, claiming that they are lying, corprate money whores.  The fact is..to make games of this caliber takes resources.  Valve stated that they took the profits of HL1 (and more) and put it back into HL2.  They have been more open with their fans, and the amateur developers, than any other company.  It must be hard to deal with the kiddie hype, constant questioning, and pressure from fans/publishers, to release NOW.  Then, at the end of the game, when they are working double-time to release, having the source stolen, and whored out.  It's just a little disheartening....even if there was security negligence on thier part.

I think people just expected it to be more done than what they found out playing the leakde version.

I havent played it myself but if its really that unfinished I'm really not so sure they should have said they could possibly make the 30th.

It's like stealing a copy of Star Wars: episode 3, weeks before the final edit, and complaining that the editing was s**t. 

All I really see from the screenies plastered everywhere are missing textures.  Textures that the hackers may not have grabbed.  Possibly:

1. The leaked material is not everything valve had.

2. The leaked code is an older build.

They may have been a few weeks away from putting the final 'shine' on this thing and getting Steam up-to-par.  But now, they're going to have to at least alter the Steam and multiplayer code, to prevent rampant cheating.  What a mess.

I agree, But we just dont know how much is missing tbh. In the end we'l have to wait anyway but some people believe that the leaked version theft is an excuse.

Come on you guys, all this speculation is pointless. The truth will eventually come out so let's just wait and see what happens.

@ Orph - Don't be too quick to trade in your hammer for UnrealEd. The U.S.S. Valve hasn't sunk yet...

Just a few months ago, the guys at Valve were heros to most of us. Polish your stones if you must, but don't start throwing them yet...ok ?

I'll admit that I now kinda regret putting off ELVA for HL2...the thought of making it for HL1, at least for an early working build, is once again tempting. It would however be sad to have to strip off features planned for the HL2 version, but I guess the core gameplay would remain the same. Hmmm, choices choices :sad:

To all those saying HL2 was delayed because of the hacking action, ill just remind you that what was leaked is what Valve has, nothing more and nothing less, so its pretty good to understand it wasnt finished yet.

Also I'd like to point out the E3 [demo] was one big fake by Valve. Ever tried to kill that soldier in physicstown ? Notice the door will still get kicked ? No scripted sequences ?

To everyone saying this is no Beta: I'd like to point out that THIS is what you wanted Valve to release on 9/30/03, theres no such thing as a much better release in Valves network!
To Valve: I suggest you stop lying to your customers about how much was stolen/compromised, or I'll have to release everything just to prove my point. And you know what you got, as I do.

Someone should tell this f**kwit that no game content was included in the leaked version- what the hell do you think the Valve mappers and texture artists have been doing for the last 5 years? And perhaps also tell him to f**k off and not ruin what's supposed to be the Next Best Game Ever for millions of people.

The leaked alpha is basically the E3 demo maps, minus some of the models, all of the sounds, and some of the textures.  I think there may be a few more maps in there too, I'm not sure.  Haven't downloaded it, probably won't.

However, the buggy looks fun to drive.  And with water like this, how can Reno not finish Vanguard?

Off topic (slightly) but I have been out of the loop for HL modding for a while now, I MOD for battlefield 1942 now, but I was looking through some HL2 fansites today and it occours to me that about 95% of the already begun HL2 mods are GROSSLY overestimating the pollycount possible for models, I have seen some rediculously high poly models intended for hl2 mods, I really have to laugh at what these modders think they are gonna do with this engine.

If anything, I hope this leak shows them that these models just aren't gonna get ingame... lol

Those screenshots look worse than the demo does. The weapons look different (worse) as well. I'm with Lep 100%, id have pushed back Doom3 for what seems like years, and nobody seems all that bothered. Now when Valve push back their release date, and on top of that have their property stolen, everybody decides to hate them?? If anything they deserve more sympathy than id have got. Anybody who jumps on Valve's back is a moron.

I don't mind its been pushed back (obviously I'd LIKE it ASAP for the sake of my mod mostly, but still), but if this malarky about the kicking in of the door being scripted (and not only that, but BADLY scripted so it occurs even if the soldier who does it is killed) even after valve saying "NO, its not scripted", then I am somewhat let down.

But personally, I'm more inclined to trust valve's promises than some lame hacker's doubts.

Well here's the thing. Valve said, more or less promised, it would be out in September. They used this to get tons of press coverage, and get everyone's hopes up. Then they push it off for like 6+ more months. It seems obvious now that they could not possibly have had it done for September like they said, ie THEY LIED TO US. And being lied to pisses people off. (and so does Steam!!)

That being said, anyone who actually thought that game would be out on time was hopelessly naive. They didn't even show any evidence of multiplayer! I had expected December at the absolute soonest. Making plans for maps/mods/etc. is still quite premature I'd say. Remember Duke Forever? Yeah...

So, what are you all going to do for the next 6+ months? Sit on your asses? Make more HL1 or UT2k3 maps, that's what I would suggest. :rolleyes:

Jinx said:
So, what are you all going to do for the next 6+ months? Sit on your asses? Make more HL1 or UT2k3 maps, that's what I would suggest. :rolleyes:

BF1942 Maps!!!

Then probably some bf:Vietnam maps... lol

BF1942 looks like a great game, but I still haven't gotten it. Maybe when I get back on broadband :sad: I don't think I would enjoy mapping for something with such a narrow theme, though.

I'm too busy working on "Asteroids" this month, using DX9. Next month I have to work with a team and come up with a complete 2D game in a little over 3 weeks. After that, it's a minute break with learning OpenGL and AI the following month(December). January I'll be learning Renderware and being the first month of Console Development. Then February comes and we begin the planning stages for Final Project, and finish up Console. Then March and April it's all Final Project. And if I haven't f**ked up at all, Graduation is in May. So if HL2 actually meets the release date, I'll finally have time for it.

someone sure likes to brag that he's in video-game school!!!! :biggrin:

Being around HL since it's first Christmas and watching it's evolution has allowed me to learn a few things. No offense to anyone here, but the HL community has always been full of dumbasses. Just play online and observe, or read around the more base community sites (cough PHL cough). Valve gets skewered no matter what they do. A patch is late? Constant bitching about missing dates. A patch is buggy? Constant bitching about releasing things early. Valve releases a comprehensive multiplayer patch that actually allows modem users to play? Bitching about Valve ruining the games (mainly TFC at the time). Valve supports CS and helps it along? Complaints about 'Valve messing everything up.' and about wasting time instead of finishing TF2. Valve tries to overcome hackers and cheaters? Community sites promote hackers and give them a voice to reach additional people, undermining Valve. Valve gets hacked and part of HL2's source code is stolen? People bitch that the game isn't finished and 'demand an explanation' about the leak not being more complete.

A leak is just that, a leak. It is not the full game, and it is beyond ridiculous to use a partially stolen game as justification to attack Valve for missing a release date. Of course, I'm certain that this hacker was just doing us all a favor to uncover Valve's lies about the state of the game, which is what you would think if you read PHL. It's disgusting.

Personally I would be content if Valve just told us all to f**k off and cancelled HL2 and whatever else (TF2?) just out of spite and being sick and tired of the community. I would have done it by now and laughed all the way to retirement.

People need to get their heads out of their asses and realize that this is only a game. Go outside and do something productive while you're waiting. Half-Life was how many years past its release date? I'm certain you would have wanted it released on time to experience the joy that a Quake 1 mod has to offer... :rolleyes:

but Valve DID gut TFC TF 1.5 is still a good game, but.... it's not TFC.

And "The Patch" that broke all the non-valve mods. Action HL was severly screwed by that, put the mod about a year behind really. I'm still angry about that. I think it's one reason the A-Team went to UT2k3. You don't see them releasing patches for that which break modders' code etc.

Ug, I want my desktop back. I have the mapping bug again, and UnrealEd laughs at my laptop's 8meg video card.

Jinx said:
BF1942 looks like a great game, but I still haven't gotten it. Maybe when I get back on broadband :sad: I don't think I would enjoy mapping for something with such a narrow theme, though.

To be honest, I think BF has a much wider gameplay scope than HL, easily. You can't have 10 tanks, a Helicopter (in the desert combat mod), and fighter planes/Jets and Infantry all on one battlefield fighting it out in HL, and even with the vehicles in HL2, I seriously doubt peoples dreams of creating a BF1942 style mod inthe HL2 engine will ever come to light (about 6 [albeit minor] BF mods have jumped ship in anticipation of HL2 thinking they can make the same mod in HL2).

Add the fact that there are 64 players on the server and you got fun, fun, fun. I intend in playing HL2 multiplayer, but to be honest, it would take quite a mighty multiplayer featureset for another game to drag me away from BF.

It's a great game to map for actually. And if you are able to model in 3dsmax 5.1 then mapping for it is really fun. The maps in bf1942 involve a lot of scripting to get the most out of them, becayse the Refractor2 engine relies heavily on scripting files. Mostly simple scripting, but there are enough variabl;es to keep your brain occupied for a very long time.

I would have to say it is the easiest to MOD of any game I have seen, no C++ or C knowledge needs to be known, a person capable of understanding these script files, and some animators/modellers/skinners can pump out a really great mod.

People complain there is no SDK, but to be honest, I doubt an SDK is possible because of the heavy reliance on scripting...

BF:Vietnam is out in March/April, with a much updated engine and new gameplay modes, so maybe get into mapping/modding for BF1942 now, ready for the new game and engine.

The biggest asset BF has over HL and basically any other game out there is that the levels are the scale equivalent of 4 to 5 kilometres in each direction. No other game has levels that size.

Come on... you know you want too... :dodgy:

</evangelism> :biggrin:

**edit** sorry about that, didn't realise I got THAT carried away lol :razz:

BF is tons o' fun. What makes the game for me is the vehicles. Flying planes into teammates is great.

However, I thought that the game maps for BF1942 were mainly heightmaps with some extra texture info...?

I really enjoyed secret weapons, It is the vehicles that make the game but the net code is horrific :/

hrm, we'll see. UT2k4 has massive vehicle stuff, too. and UT maps can be several miles wide as well. thing is, without broadband most of these are probably unplayable anyway for me. must find a job!

Hornpipe2 said:
BF is tons o' fun. What makes the game for me is the vehicles. Flying planes into teammates is great.

However, I thought that the game maps for BF1942 were mainly heightmaps with some extra texture info...?

The maps are Heightfield data, with a texture, but it also has a materialmap, which defines the physics and sound of each peice of terrain.

But also, each control point, spawn point and vehicle spawn point are defined by script files, and in these script files there are many possible combinations. For instance, people found that creatine a vehicle with a spwn point attached means you don't nee to have flags or control points, and if this vehicle is the only spawn point, when it is destryed, that team spawning from the vehicle loses, thus creating an objective mode, the opposing team needs to destroy the vehicle, instead of capturing flags.

Then, you can take that further, and turn a building model into a vehicle, but take away the vehicles entry points (so the vehicle cannot be "used") making the building destroyable, and then with the afformentioned info, make it so you need to destroy the building to win.

as the MOD community is still young, we are still find new and more ways to manipulate this stuff, making it a lot of fun, you can also manipulate some of the game files, like weapons kits and vehicles from within the mapfile, makings even more tsuff to play with... its quite dynamic. Its just ashame there is no dynamic lighting :sad:

...maybe in BF:V...

KoRnFlakes said:
I really enjoyed secret weapons, It is the vehicles that make the game but the net code is horrific :/

Yes, the client side prediction is quite lacking, I haven't seen a 64 player server that doesn't lag, but I am on 512k ADSL, and can play on a 45 - 50 player server with no problems.

The upside is that cheats are not very common in BF, you get alot of accusations, but its usually just because someone is very very good, or the usual lag issues, etc..

There are hacks to get rid of the fog and increase the view distance, but that only helps you if you are a sniper, so it doesn't matter...

BF has tons of issues as well, it's not so fun sitting around camping for planes or vehicles to spawn, and there is surely something buggy with the close combat, often shooting someone does nothing maybe lost packets over the net causes this? But really comparing HL to BF would be a stupid idea, they both do different things. I like DoD and BF, but they're not the same other than the time period they're set in. If I want some close combat I'm playing DoD for sure. If I feel like landing planes on someone's roof, BF time.

http://www.fileplanet.com/

Read what Dekota has to say on the right hand side :biggrin:

But I think his statment is a little premature, I think we should wait for about 3 years and see if the statment holds true, but it is certainly a good sign :smile:

I am looking forward to the Empires mods release, its like an RTS in FPS mode ... thats the only way I can describe it :smile:

hmmm... must remember to log in permanently instead of each time I post...

If somehow the 1st person ground combat of DoD, the foliage and nature graphics of Ghost Recon, and the vehicles and map sizes of BF1942 could be merged into one uber-game, I'd be in heaven.

To be honest, I think it is the map size that stops bf from having the nice close quarters combat that everybody loves, but its a lot harder to get sniped and have no idea where it came from in small maps, so there is a trade off.

I have never played ghost recon, so I can't comment. A lot of people seem to be buzzing about how GREAT Soldner looks, but from the screens I have seen it looks bloody awful, the foliage does anyway...