U.S. Drinking Age

There's a new liquor inspector here in Vermont and he's reinterpretting
state law which is bringing about quite a few unwelcome changes to my
college's approach to parties with alcohol. The drinking laws and
therefore the drinking age as well has been the topic of much
conversation here.

Considering the fact that a large number of pitters live outside of the
United States, I was wondering what your thoughts were on having the
drinking age set at 21.

Personally, I think it's strange that the U.S. government views me as
old and mature enough to fight in a war, but I can't legally have a
beer.

Many people are afraid that drunk driving and irresponsible behavior
would greatly increase with a drop of the drinking age, but why is it
that the rest of the world can handle a much lower drinking age?

Is it a problem rooted in American culture?

Just move to Australia lol. Just kidding, I don't even know what the drinking age is here, but I don't need to drink alcohol, so long as I have Coke!

There's a lot of problems in american culture. People have thier priorities ALL messed up. People try to be "progressive" on the wrong things and stay WAAAY too conservative on the stuff that doesnt matter or will fix itself, like the drinking age.

You can vote, buy tobacco, legally consent to sex, and be drafted into the military at age 18 in the united states. But you must be 21 to drink. WTF! it's a ridiculous throwback to puritannical thinking. People try to be "progressive" on things like San Francisco's new law that all doghouses must have raised wooden floors, under penalty of steep fines and even jail time, i've heard. Stop with this bulls**t and pass some legislation that DOES SOMETHINg for PEOPLE!!!!! FFS!

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Another problem with our culture is that nudity and sex is such a taboo
subject (for example in movies and videogames) while violence is highly
tolerated.

Case in point: the whole hot coffee GTA:San Andreas debacle.

Anyway -- its thing's like that that make me think there's something really wrong with our culture.

If its lowered to 18 in Vermont im hopping the Massachusetts border to Vermont and living there :razz:

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http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/8521/windows981dk.jpg

Nickelplate is my dad

ok, look....ill tell ya straight away, im a parent, and im a dick about it. ill also tell ya a quick story....true story

about 5 years ago i went down to check out a local pub for a potential gig, ended up staying for a bit to hang with a buddy who was the local bouncer. a kid was having his 21st birthday party at this pub, and all his family and friends were there....shots and beer were flowing heavily (they were irish, whatever that means.. :wink: ) and a merry time was being had by all...myself included.

....until about 30 minutes before closing time.....cant find the birthday boy. they start a small search.... turns into big search. .....cant find him. at this point people are beside themselves, and we are doing all we can.....cops show, various others....cant find him.....i gotta go, its 4 am....maybe he just took off to play with a chickee....who knows, hes 21, its his birthday. and hes hammered. woot.

....they searched all night, into the morning......and the pub pops up on the midday news....they found the kid about 150 yards down the way.....fell into 8 inches of water in a drainage canal and drowned. too f**kin drunk to get up and out. on his 21st birthday. ...and at his family's and friends instigation.

live with that one......

point being....no. i think the drinking age is fine where its at, unless yer a soldier. you can die for yer country, you can drink. period.

but like i said in the beginning, im a parent....it changes yer perspectives.....

Doc B...

That's called natural selection.

Now think of it from a DIFFERENT perspectice, Doc. If the drinking age had been 18 all along, he never would have been at that bar getting drunk because it would have just been another boring birthday instead of some special time to excercise newfound freedoms. Had the age been 18, he never would have died that night.

Think of how much sneaking around and running from the cops goes on with underage kids, and think of how many accidents it causes. If the age were lowered, it wouldn't be anything neat anymore because it wouldnt be wrong and as a parent you know that kids think doing wrong stuff is the s**t!

If it was okay for highschoolers to drink, then they would not do it as much.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

I entirely agree with Nickel... kids drink 'cause they're not allowed to until they reach a ridiculous age, and then they go wild 'cause they can drink legally, but they haven't learned any "drinking etiquette" as it were because they lack any experience with how much they can drink before they're drunk/trashed/puking/blacked out.

....exactly.....they are still kids.....even at 21. and all kids need guidance....a drinking age is a cureall to a fluid problem...all kids handle everything differently....till they get the experience to deal with it.

Doc B....

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Dr Brasso</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>....exactly.....they are still kids.

Doc B....

</DIV></DIV>

so then everyone who's not your age is "still a kid?" that doesnt work, cause anyone younger than you would be eternally a kid. the line is different for every person, and if you can't handle it, you die. that's the bottom line. part of natural selsction.
We're polluting the gene pool by protecting these ppl from themselves.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

It is very crazy that you can go to war but can't have a shot.

It's wierd that there is such a big difference in drinking ages, as
some of you know I just got back from Madeira, the drinking age there
is 16, yet you don't see drunk teens roaming the streets (only the
british ones).

It's at 21 right now partially because our driving age is 16, and those newly indoctrined to the drinking fold have proven to be predictably irresponsible in its consumption. This is why, in Connecticut at the very least, you can drink at 18 as long as you're on private property with the owner's consent and not going anywhere. The only other real option is to not have a drinking age, but have a society which respects the whole notion of drinking better.

Fat chance.

it's a curse on society, with the worst behaviour coming from the youngest drinkers.

as for natural selection being involved in such an unfortunate accident, well, that's just pish.

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i eat paint

Beer tastes like ass. Not sure that the experience of drinking it
has inclined me to do so more when it's legal for me.

I've seen way to many assholes that go on drinking binges. I'd rather spend my time at Dairy Queen.

I started drinking beer+soda when I was 10. At 16, I used to drink half a bottle of vodka, and I have an almost normal life now (except that I waste hours and hours of my time reading gaming clan forums :wink: ). So I think it should be lowered at least to 18; these are the years where you enjoy it the most.

The story of the guy who drowned at his 21st birthday is horrible, Doc B, but that's maybe because he didn't start drinking progressivly; it's like you lose your virginity with an orgy. Maybe if it was his 18th, he wouldn't have gotten that drunk...

Here in Sweden, the rules are quite messed up.

I'm 18 and I'm allowed to buy low alcohol beer at the lokal stores awell as go to the pub and buy strong stuff.

However if you want the strong stuff in another place than the pub you
have to buy it at ba "state-controlled company for the sale of wine and
spirits" and im not allowed to enter that place until im 21. How weird
isnt that?

Drinking lots of vodka at the age of 16 is quite common here in Sweden aswell, everyone drinks like mad =P.

BTW, are you americans not "allowed" to have sex before youre 18?

That sounds weird.. Doest anyone follow that "rule"?

Here in Sweden, we have nothing that tells us when its ok or not ok to have sex, just a hint on a proper age, 16.

in britain, if your in you home and under parental consent you can have a drink at five.

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Bullet Control: $5000 for a bullet.
"I would blow your f**king head off! ...if I could afford it. I'm gonna get another job, start saving some money... then you a dead man!"

MisterBlister, I'm not sure if it varies from state to state but I know
here in Vermont that the legal age of consent is 16. Which means
that if either party enagaging in sexual activity is younger than 16
its not legal. Even if they are both under 16 its still not
legal... but this rule isn't particularly enforced...

I've never heard of two young lovers getting busted :smile:

Anyway back to drinking, I think that if alcohol wasn't such a taboo
subject like it is here, children would learn how to deal with it
responsibly as they age, instead of having to learn about alcohol
furtively and dangerously before they're 21, or not knowing anything
about it at all until they're 21 and they put themselves in dangerous
situations like that young man, because he didn't know his limits.

The parental pressure that many teens feel make them hide their
drinking habits and I can tell you this from personal experience.
I'm 20, and just this past summer I was having a few drinks with some
friends 15 minutes from my house. It was getting late and I knew
I wasn't fit to drive home, but I was too afraid of what my parents
would say if I told them I was too drunk to drive (since they are very
against me drinking before 21) so I drove home anyway. It was the
stupidest thing I've done, ever. And basically my fear of my
parents overruled any fears of hurting myself or others, which is
stupid now that I think about it, but in the moment, it seemed like my
only option. If I lived in somewhere in Europe, I'm sure I
wouldn't have driven drunk that night because I wouldn't have felt
pressure to hide my drinking. I would have just called home and
said, dad I'm drunk so I'm going to stay here.

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting Dr Brasso</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>....exactly.....they are still kids.

Doc B....

</DIV></DIV>

so then everyone who's not your age is "still a kid?" that doesnt work, cause anyone younger than you would be eternally a kid. the line is different for every person, and if you can't handle it, you die. that's the bottom line. part of natural selsction.
We're polluting the gene pool by protecting these ppl from themselves.

nickel, yer a smart man, but that is the god damn dumbest argument ive heard in ages....i did NOT say that everyone whos not my age is a "kid", although the older i get, the the more i seem to look at younger adults as kids....no offense intended.....im saying exactly what fishy and others have said....including you. the line of "maturity is different for all....which is why a single drinking age is in effect. we do not have the resources or the "test" for "mature enough to drink" yet.....if yer 18 and been in combat, youve been forced to grow up ....immediately, and ill be the first one to shake yer hand and buy you a drink.... if yer a poor little rich kid who's bored and decides that drinking is big fun, well, yer in for a rude awakening eventually.....read and heed the signs when yer young.....itll pay off when you get to be my age......if you make it. :wink:

now, i dont want to be a hipocrite....i was raised in germany, and i was damn near a full tilt drunk when i was in the service, and combat ready.....but that was circumstances, and i was a "dumb kid"

if i had it to do over, id do it a bit differently...

Doc Brasso... :dodgy:

I can barely imagine living in a society with a drinking age of 21.
Here in the UK it is 18, but the vast majority of kids start drinking
regularly by 16, to some extent with their parents knowledge if not
explicit consent. While the drinking age in much (all?) of the US is
21, does it really have a big effect? Obviously it means you don't go
drinking in pubs and things when you are younger, but is it still
commonplace for 16 year olds to be getting drink while at parties and
things? At the age at which teenagers are going out partying, it seems
logical for drink to make an appearance, and I can't really imagine
what these occasions would be like without that. If I was going to a
party at 16 years old, you can bet your boots off most people would be
drinking to some degree.

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[img]http://card.mygamercard.net/sig/Default/reno84.png[/img]
Designer @ Haiku Interactive | ReNo-vation.net

<DIV class=quotetitle>? posted by ReNo</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>
<DIV style="BORDER-RIGHT: red 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: red 1px solid; BORDER-LEFT: red 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: red 1px solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #151515">I can barely imagine living in a society with a drinking age of 21. Here in the UK it is 18, but the vast majority of kids start drinking regularly by 16, to some extent with their parents knowledge if not explicit consent. While the drinking age in much (all?) of the US is 21, does it really have a big effect? Obviously it means you don't go drinking in pubs and things when you are younger, but is it still commonplace for 16 year olds to be getting drink while at parties and things? At the age at which teenagers are going out partying, it seems logical for drink to make an appearance, and I can't really imagine what these occasions would be like without that. If I was going to a party at 16 years old, you can bet your boots off most people would be drinking to some degree.
</DIV></DIV>

exactly duncan, its all in how yer raised.....if yer trained to drink responsibly, then youve been trained to "drink", which in actuality is a whole other topic. check that mindset....

ok....so lets be realistic.

in all actuality, life is not what you see in the movies, its hard, itrs day to day, its robbing peter to pay paul, its worrying about yer kids, its alot of things that drive yer spirit right into the f**king ground.....i know this....and everybody needs a little somethin' somethin' just to get em thru the damn day.....pick yer poison.alchohol. drugs. religion. sex addict (always wanted to investigate that one further.. :heee: ) fast cars and adrenaline rushes....whatever.....all things in moderation.

its the ability to choose yer road that should be cultivated....and yer all gonna hate this statement, but....few "kids" have the wherewithall and the qualifications to make that choice. they dont see the whole picture yet, because they havent been there. kind of a catch 22 in a sense i suppose.

Doc B...

good discussion so far gents.... :wink:

I think its to high, though i cant really be allowd to have a oppionon about this since i dont live in the us. But i find it hard to get around that you let kids dive a car at 16 and let drink at 21, here traffic accidents make more victims then alcohol does. Here you are allowed to drive when your 18, though there planning on raising it since researched showed that young drivers take a higher risk on the road, logical for me since young people usualy dare to do more things, if not dangerous.

---

RUST Gamedesign
pepper design

The strength of the turbulence is directly proportional to the temperature of your coffee.

MisterBlister

Its MisterBister!

How many times do I have to tell you guys ^_^.

Sorry about that MisterBister, I had just woken up when I wrote that.

Reno, the drinking age is 21 all across the united states.
Individual states have the ability to change the drinking laws in their
state and lower, for example, but the federal government effectively
forces the states to maintain the 21 year old law because if they
change it, they lose a ton of federal funding towards roads and
highways. Apparently Mrs. Dole gave a ton of money with the
caveat that she would only provide it if the drinking age was 21.
That's what I've heard, I may be wrong so any of you can correct me.

Doc Brasso, I agree that drinking responsibly is something that should
be tought by the parents, but with a drinking age of 21 it seems to me
that a lot parents choose not to prepare their kids for the realities
of drinking until they've already explored it with their peers.
The majority of kids in my area started drinking at age 14 or 15
(although I didn't start drinking regularly until 18) and most parents
are oblivious to what their kids are doing. Some parents (my
mother included) cling to this idea that their children wont be tempted
to drink before 21 and they don't bother to worry about the issue of
drinking until much later. It was only this year that my mother
began to accept that I drink at college, after numerous hints. If
the drinking age was 18 I would expect parents would teach their kids
how to drink responsibly at a lower age than they do now, since they
legally get to drink sooner and parents can't ignore the issue for
quite as long.

Some people are afraid that if the drinking age is lowered to 18 that
many kids in highschool will be able to buy alcohol and then distribute
it down the chain from seniors to juniors to sophomore to
freshman. But Reno was very correct when he assumed that 16 year
olds are already drinking in the US, and they don't have a hard time
getting a hold of alcohol. Fake IDs, real IDs from older
siblings, and older family members or lenient establishments all
provide the means for underage drinking to occur. The government
and police seem so intent on eradicating underage drinking, instead of
educating kids on how to drink safely. The end result is that
kids binge drink and put themselves in situations where they'd rather
not go to the hospital with a friend who needs help, because they're
afraid of the consequences.

.....because they are kids, and havent really learned their ass from a bucket yet.....the problem is, i know "adults" who are the exact same way..... go figure.

Doc Brasso... :dodgy:

If I was going to a
party at 16 years old, you can bet your boots off most people would be
drinking to some degree.

He speaks no lies....

Addicted, most parent's of people who I know already know that their
kids drink be it 15, 16 or 17. I'm 17 and my mum let's me have beer,
not all the time but sometimes say at the weekend, maybe she respects
me more because I don't choose the trashy stuff.

I don't see what the big deal is. Who cares what the drinking age is? As numerous people have pointed out it, most people start drinking long before the legal age anyway. If your parents were going to teach you about responsible drinking, they would have done it already, all laws aside. Good parents teach their kids about sex and alcohol long before there is any temptation to try either.

---

Some people are like slinkys...

They aren?t really good for anything, but you can't help but laugh when one tumbles down the stairs.

Here in Sweden, the rules are quite messed up.

I'm 18 and I'm allowed to buy low alcohol beer at the lokal stores awell as go to the pub and buy strong stuff.

However if you want the strong stuff in another place than the pub you
have to buy it at ba "state-controlled company for the sale of wine and
spirits" and im not allowed to enter that place until im 21. How weird
isnt that?

Dear fellow Swede, this makes perfect sense to me.

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"Azelito, stop being a f**king bitch. All I see you do is complain and insult people in your recent posts. We don't care, go find a razor you emo pansy..." -Windows98

an 'ability test' for drinking rights is a stupid idea, but if it came to it, i don't think it should be reserved for the youth.

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i eat paint

Tracer Bullet said:
I don't see what the big deal is. Who cares what the drinking age is? As numerous people have pointed out it, most people start drinking long before the legal age anyway. If your parents were going to teach you about responsible drinking, they would have done it already, all laws aside. Good parents teach their kids about sex and alcohol long before there is any temptation to try either.

I agree-gree. Of course, there is a shortage of good parents too, probably. Women are "liberated" and off getting jobs and men are working as usual, and the kids get raised by uncensored (parentally) TV. They see beer commercials with cool dudes drinkin' a Bud, they're going to have that subconsciously in thier mind that it's cool. Or they see ANYTHING on MTC and think that casual sex is a great and safe thing. This is not ALWAYS the case of course, but its happening more and more.

I'm 20, and I've never had any alcohol yet. Except for when I was in UK and then it was legal. /Me loves UK.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

<DIV class=quotetitle>? posted by fishy</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>
an 'ability test' for drinking rights is a stupid idea, but if it came to it, i don't think it should be reserved for the youth.

hear hear fishman..... :beerchug: </DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>i cant help but think of the old "WKRP in Cincinnatti" episode where johnny fever took the progressive alchohol consumption test on the air, and his reactions actually got better.... old show, excellent episode....</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext> </DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>Doc B... :dodgy: </DIV>

Tracer Bullet said:
I
don't see what the big deal is. Who cares what the drinking age is? As
numerous people have pointed out it, most people start drinking long
before the legal age anyway. If your parents were going to teach you
about responsible drinking, they would have done it already, all laws
aside. Good parents teach their kids about sex and alcohol long before
there is any temptation to try either.

I agree-gree. Of course, there is a shortage of good parents too,
probably. Women are "liberated" and off getting jobs and men are
working as usual, and the kids get raised by uncensored (parentally)
TV. They see beer commercials with cool dudes drinkin' a Bud, they're
going to have that subconsciously in thier mind that it's cool. Or they
see ANYTHING on MTC and think that casual sex is a great and safe
thing. This is not ALWAYS the case of course, but its happening more
and more.

I'm 20, and I've never had any alcohol yet. Except for when I was in UK and then it was legal. /Me loves UK.

i dont think seeing "cool" people on tv really has an effect if
anything its seeing your friends who you actually personaly think are
cool but mostly its your own choice to bow down to peer pressure or
commercials if your actually that pathetically seeking coolness

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quoting FatStrings</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>

i dont think seeing "cool" people on tv really has an effect if anything its seeing your friends who you actually personaly think are cool but mostly its your own choice to bow down to peer pressure or commercials if your actually that pathetically seeking coolness

</DIV></DIV>

Unfortunately it's worse than you think. Fatstrings, remember the guy, Pete W. at school that peed his pants at lunch for $3.67. PPL will do ANYTHING to be cool unfortunately...

Children and Adolescents, Even adults all take thier cues of what's "cool" from TV, Commercials work, otherwise they'd have stopped having them altogether.

---

I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

Peer pressure should not be underestimated. It's a powerful
force, because aside from your family and for some people god, there is
no greater influence on your life than your friends. Friends are
usually people who you greatly respect, and their decisions
inadvertantly influence your own. Obviously if some stranger came
up to me and told me to smoke pot, I'd tell him to get lost. But
if my two best friends attempted to persuade me and pressure me for
months, inadvertantly something's gotta give. You can't dismiss
all those who fall to peer pressure as pathetic.

In Australia, the legal age is 18, otherwise you have to be on private property and have your parent's permission.

---

Better to be in denial than to be human.

Bill Gates understands binary: his company is number one, and his customers are all zeros.

First comment with out reading the entire thread:
Its not the age that defines whether or not you should drink or not -
its the level of maturity. 18 Year olds (in America) lack the
responsibility of 21 year olds, granted A LOT of 21 year olds don't act
their age, but I believe that 18 year olds don't need to have the
ability to buy alcohol legally. And if anyone argues other wise is
begging for extreme equality, because alcohol isn't a right - its a
privilage, just like driving.

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Posting And You

First comment with out reading the entire thread:
Its not the age that defines whether or not you should drink or not -
its the level of maturity. 18 Year olds (in America) lack the
responsibility of 21 year olds, granted A LOT of 21 year olds don't act
their age, but I believe that 18 year olds don't need to have the
ability to buy alcohol legally. And if anyone argues other wise is
begging for extreme equality, because alcohol isn't a right - its a
privilage, just like driving.

Well, does this mean that Americans are less mature than the rest of the world?

First comment with out reading the entire thread:
Its not the age that defines whether or not you should drink or not -
its the level of maturity. 18 Year olds (in America) lack the
responsibility of 21 year olds, granted A LOT of 21 year olds don't act
their age, but I believe that 18 year olds don't need to have the
ability to buy alcohol legally. And if anyone argues other wise is
begging for extreme equality, because alcohol isn't a right - its a
privilage, just like driving.

Well, does this mean that Americans are less mature than the rest of the world?

Yes

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Posting And You

I love my parents, but I gotta admit, their ability to talk with me about difficult subjects was s**t and a half. I've said it before in threads where we've discussed public schooling, TB, your parents are far above the norm in terms of what they were willing to do. Please don't assume ours were (or could ever be) as enlightened.

Peer pressure should not be underestimated. It's a powerful
force, because aside from your family and for some people god, there is
no greater influence on your life than your friends. Friends are
usually people who you greatly respect, and their decisions
inadvertantly influence your own. Obviously if some stranger came
up to me and told me to smoke pot, I'd tell him to get lost. But
if my two best friends attempted to persuade me and pressure me for
months, inadvertantly something's gotta give. You can't dismiss
all those who fall to peer pressure as pathetic.

you misunderstand me i admit peer pressure works, but i dont know about
tv commercials they just make me wanna change the channel

Well, does this mean that Americans are less mature than the rest of the world?

There are different types of maturity. But, don't think that this line of thinking is absolute. But for the most part: I'll agree.

---

Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

That was a sad story Brasso but it most certainly qualifies for a
Darwin award. The guy obviously didn't know how to handle his drink and
had never touched it before. This would've happened if it was his 18th
birthday, his 21st or his 25th.

My parents started me off drinking when I was bout 14-15 (Can't
remember much). All I was given was a bottle of Bacardi Breezer to have
with my tea on holiday maybe twice a week. They've gradually built me
up over the past few years and I know what to expect with Alcohol. I'd
been drinking a fair few times with friends before my 18th and as a
result, I knew my limit. On my 18th I went right up to that limit, but
didn't go over.

I'm a lightweight (gradually getting better) and if I hadn't been
introduced to alcohol gradually then I'd have gone right that limit and
may well have ended up with a Darwin award. Raising the drinking age to
21 would do nothing. Americans obviously drink before 21 and the people
who get harmed by it are those who stick so religeously to the law.

---

-KingNic

-Slapping polygons together incoherently since 2000

thye should not lower the drinking age as they get to drive at an earlier age.

would be dangerous!

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Hell, is an half-filled auditorium

Well, look at it this way honestly

Country A:

There is no minimum drinking age. Youre family raises you, maybe about
10-12 your parents think you can handle a little, give you a small
amount for christmas dinner. Later on, you're parents give you
little bits here and there, more as you mature and become able to
physically handle it, you grow up drinking responsibly.

Country B:

Minimum drinking age is 21. You are raised in a 'YOU WILL NOT DRINK
UNTIL YOU ARE 21' household. You turn 21, go on a binge, you're found
next morning dead of alcohol poisoning

While B is a bit extreme, its happened.

---

Signature? What signature!?

As I understand it any individual state could lower the minimum
drinking age but only at the expense of losing federal highway funding.
This suggests that one of the principal reasons for raising the age
limit is to reduce the number of drink-driving fatalities in the 18 -
21 age group. I've just read the following:

"According to research at the Center of Alcohol Studies, at Rutgers
University, raising the drinking age to 21 increased drinking-induced
fatalities in the 21-24 age group, by about as much as it lowered
fatalities for those aged 18-20. The study researchers suggested that a person's amount of drinking experience, not the age of the person drinking, played the most important factor in alcohol fatalities."

If this is true then the sensible course would seem to be to reduce the
legal age for drinking to 18 and raise the age at which you can legally
drive to 21.

No, don't raise the driving age to 21. That would suck so
hard. In Kanata, you can drive at 16 (2 years for me) and I don't
want anything to ruin that :smile:

i was never taught against over drinking , they just assumed i
knew. luckily i learned from my older brother. i dont like alcohol
anyways though..

only kinda thing like that i drink is the wine at communion

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.else /me ~kill you
www.arclan.net

You guys are assuming that everyone who drives also drinks and everyone who drinks also drives, which neither of which are true. I wouldn't want to wait until I was 21 ... before ... to drive just because some douches drank too much. Not to mention, I don't drink ... So, that's kind of the s**t end of the deal, don't you think?

[vent]

There are other problems too. A large majority of teenagers here (not saying all, I wasn't like this, neither were any of my friends) are the most irresponsible drivers I've ever seen. Besides some anal-douche who thinks they're hot s**t cause they've got a BMW and cuts you off going about 60. Yeah, way to go, you almost killed us to get to the red light 2 seconds sooner, ass.

I'm sorry. I hate other drivers who're irresponsible, not only does it risk people's lives, needlessly, but it also costs me more money! Since they're in my age range, I get tacked with premiums in the area. I really hate insurance, also ... and the IRS ... what kind of moronic country would have a mandatory taxation system that wasn't part of the government, America, that's who.

[/vent]

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Blame it on Microsoft, God does.

Crono said:
You guys are assuming that everyone who drives also drinks and everyone who drinks also drives, which neither of which are true. I wouldn't want to wait until I was 21 ... before ... to drive just because some douches drank too much. Not to mention, I don't drink ... So, that's kind of the s**t end of the deal, don't you think?

[vent]

There are other problems too. A large majority of teenagers here (not saying all, I wasn't like this, neither were any of my friends) are the most irresponsible drivers I've ever seen. Besides some anal-douche who thinks they're hot s**t cause they've got a BMW and cuts you off going about 60. Yeah, way to go, you almost killed us to get to the red light 2 seconds sooner, ass.

I'm sorry. I hate other drivers who're irresponsible, not only does it risk people's lives, needlessly, but it also costs me more money! Since they're in my age range, I get tacked with premiums in the area. I really hate insurance, also ... and the IRS ... what kind of moronic country would have a mandatory taxation system that wasn't part of the government, America, that's who.

[/vent]

I agree with that, crono. 'Coz I my insurance is $1000 every 6 months, because I am a 20yr-old single male.

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I tried sniffing coke, but the ice cubes kept getting stuck in my nose.
http://www.dimebowl.com

In estonia we have everything allowed when you are 18 :smile: sex without
parental consect, drink whatever you want, go wherever you want...

WEL

COME

TOEST

ONIA

http://www.visitestonia.com/

(can you believe that for this logo they paid 2 million EEK? umm... 1
USD is about 13 EEK, 1 poundsterling is about 25 EEK, 1 euro is about
15 EEK)

<div class="abouttext">Message submitted 0 minutes after original post:</b></div>
Oh, and if you see the banner when clicking on one of those links under there...

http://www.visitestonia.com/img/themes/1/0.jpg

That's the thing :biggrin: City 17 :biggrin:

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HL2 tutorials 'n' stuff: http://madedog.pri.ee
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