I was judging these CS:S maps with the same standards that we use at the SnarkPit, but it's like talking to a rock sometimes.

The moderator actually believes that some mappers are using full-bright intentionally as a legitimate way to brighten up the map. I couldn't believe what I was hearing.

Just look at that map above. These uploads are actually screened by the moderator. I can't believe that they allow such uploads. The screenshots are actually taken by the site moderators.

However, that site does get a huge number of hits/download. I guess the inherent popularity of CS makes that possible.

---

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge

Damn CSians....

yeah...

a lot of mappers are using full bright now for outdoor-style maps.

That makes me :'(

That is a very loose use of the term mapper. I barely consider myself
a mapper, much less the people who pump out an unlit killbox a week.
Funny that this phenomenon was never really "problem" until the Source
SDK was announced so loudly. I'm not saying its a bad thing to have it
more accessible, just that with so many more new people making maps,
the ratio of experienced, dedicated mappers to "1337 mapzorz who maek
kilboxez" has become smaller. And also with the compination of CS's
popularity and the fact that you can make an unlit box with props in it
fairly quickly at any level of experience, the game gets flooded with
what I would call crappy maps.

What's worse is that bad mapping practices are reinforced by many people, like in the quote above.

---

o

http://www.cstrike-planet.com/dlx/huds look! "KFS' Green HDU"

KFS: Kentucky Fried Shicken
KFS: Kung Fu Squirrel
KFS: Killer From Sky

Rarely is the question asked: "Why is our children browsing 'aim' map forums?"

a lot of mappers are using full bright now for outdoor-style maps.

Hahaha! You know how I interpret this? "Vrad is un-cool now, you un-evolved n00b; get with the times!"

No, really, he sounds as if he were informing us of a great discovery in the field of gamedesign or something :biggrin: .

Sad...I even stop using light_enviroment in a couple of my maps just
for better looking lighting. Now spotlights are easier to use, I can
get better lighting from those then a more bland looking
light_enviroment.

What can I say, this is the home of the mapping elite.

EDIT:

Ahaha, I was looking around at these maps in awe, when I suddenly
bumped into a map that actually looked decent. I was shocked and amazed
and thought that I had misjudged our fellow mapper comrades. That was
until I saw the author of the map, satchmo. The map was de_justice.

The rest of the maps on that site is aim_ or fy_. Also, they're all crap.

---

"Azelito, stop being a f**king bitch. All I see you do is complain and insult people in your recent posts. We don't care, go find a razor you emo pansy..." -Windows98

What the heck. Even I think this looks like KFS (Kentucky fried s**te). Very bright doesn't mean there is an absence of shadows.

Get me the hell outa there.

---

Never try to be perfect - just try it and make the best out of it

I can't wait to hear "sebastians" response to your points satch.

This is awful.

Someone who doesn't invest the time to understand lighting probably
didn't invest time in the gameplay either. I avoid those maps like the
crap they are.

Full-bright for outdoor maps? Oh, there's crates, too. And dust textures. That says enough...

---

Create-ivity - a game development blog

a lot of mappers are using full bright now for outdoor-style maps.

Hahaha! You know how I interpret this? "Vrad is un-cool now, you un-evolved n00b; get with the times!"

No, really, he sounds as if he were informing us of a great discovery in the field of gamedesign or something :biggrin: .

Hahahahaha!

a lot of mappers are using full bright now for outdoor-style maps.

Hahaha! You know how I interpret this? "Vrad is un-cool now, you un-evolved n00b; get with the times!"

No, really, he sounds as if he were informing us of a great discovery in the field of gamedesign or something :biggrin: .

Hahahahaha!

Roger that, I got that feeling too. Not to rip on the guy or anything,
he should just know what he's talking about before he says anything.

---

o

? quote:? quote:

a lot of mappers are using full bright now for outdoor-style maps.

Hahaha! You know how I interpret this? "Vrad is un-cool now, you un-evolved n00b; get with the times!"

No, really, he sounds as if he were informing us of a great discovery in the field of gamedesign or something :biggrin: .

Hahahahaha!

Roger that, I got that feeling too. Not to rip on the guy or anything,
he should just know what he's talking about before he says anything.

LOLOLOL LITEZ0rS R 4 NUBS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have a question for Satch and the rest of you guys... what's the best place to release your CS map?

I mean, Satch was that the best release location you could find?

Not that I'll be able to work on any Source maps anytime soon, but I was just curious.

OMG, this map has the
most masterful use of texture I have ever seen. And the lighting
is simply amazing.

P.S. <span style="color: gold;">Make sure you have a vomit bucket nearby when you click the link.

was that the best release location you could find?

I looked at a lot of CS custom map sites, and CStrike Planet is the
best-maintained and most professional-looking of them all. I wish
I could say the same about the quality of maps there.<br style="color: white;">
<br style="color: white;">
But if you take some time to browse the map vault, there are occasional gems in there. You just have to be patient.

</span>

---

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge

In no particular order are the ones I would use:

http://www.csm2.net/

http://www.fpsbanana.com/

http://punkassfraggers.com/

http://www.counter-strike-dl.com/

Those are the ones I look for maps on. Definitely post it here first
though and get it picked apart, this community has a lot more
collective mapping experience and talent than any CS:S mapping
community I've found.

Edit:

OMG, this map has the
most masterful use of texture I have ever seen. And the lighting
is simply amazing.

leet.

---

o

<div class="quote"><div class="quotetitle">? quoting Jecre of cstrike-planet.com:</div><div class="quotetext">
"I think it's a great map worthy of a 24/7 rotation."

</div></div>

I want to quote Mitch Hedberg when I say... get the f**k out!

--

Baron, thanks for those links. I agree with your assessment of the SP.

<div class="quote"><div class="quotetitle">? quoting Satchmo:</div><div class="quotetext"><span style="color: gold;">I looked at a lot of CS custom map sites, and
CStrike Planet is the
best-maintained and most professional-looking of them all. I wish
I could say the same about the quality of maps there.<br style="color: white;">
<br style="color: white;">
But if you take some time to browse the map vault, there are occasional gems in there. You just have to be patient.

</span></div></div>

Well, looking on the bright side, the preponderance of dross makes de_justice stand out.

Thanks, BvS. I joined csm2 and submitted de_justice to them.

CStrike Planet does get the most hits though. One plus for them
is that mappers do not have to register with them to upload maps and
make comments.

---

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge

Registering to upload doesn't seem like a big negative... but registering to download would potentially turn people away.

Makes you appreciate snarkpeople more, doesn't it? :evilgrin:

That site's maps are hillarious.

Guess what? Some idiot rated my map 1/5.

And the full-bright map is going to be put onto the server rotation 24/7?

They can go suck their mother's tits.

---

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge

They're just jelous. What do you expect from a newb den?

And I added my own tactless reply. I informed Seb that those people are just plain stupid. Why?

1) If you think fullbright maps are cool, you are stupid.

2) If you don't know how to use the compile menu, you are stupid.

3) If you don't know what a light entity is, you are stupid.

4) If you think killboxes are maps, you are stupid.

well, at least he alligned them.... ****runs like hell

Doc b... :dodgy:

Wow Satchmo, your map has been downloaded 259 times in 5 days!
You weren't kidding when you said that site gets a lot of traffic!

Yeah, there's a download every half an hour, and this goes on and on for months and months.

When I looked up some of the old maps (more than six months old), they're still getting downloaded a few time a day. That's amazing.

That's why I picked the site. Plus, the interface looks pretty.

---

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge

That is a very ugly map..

there was one I just DL from here, some hill one.. very nice design but
the light is too low everyone is nothing more than a shadow. So its the
extreme the other way around.

<div class="abouttext">Message submitted 3 minutes after original post:</b></div>
There is this server I play on all the time, and they are into the
whole kill box thing.. there is one map they play a lot..
cs_speedcastle, god I hate that map.. a box with crates. man I want to
smack them everytime they load it.. and kick the mappers ass who made
it.

I honestly don't know what goes on in these people's heads. The only good killbox ever created was "Dead Simple" for DooM ][ (although it's probably of an arena than a killbox).

---

Better to be in denial than to be human.

Bill Gates understands binary: his company is number one, and his customers are all zeros.

Someone just remade that recently. I saw it on the front page...

Ah yes, here it is: http://www.snarkpit.net/maps.php?map=2316

good killbox

That's a paradox nowadays. :evilgrin:

Well, looking on the bright side, the preponderance of dross makes de_justice stand out.

Perhaps it should be "looking on the FULL bright side" :biggrin:

Insert appropriate bad joke drum line

---

Ham and Jam Contributor
http://www.hamandjam.org

'Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!'

Isn't it amazing. Those full-bright maps (rated 1/5, nonetheless) can get 90 downloads in two days at that site.

Imagine what CStrike Planet can do for your maps. :wink:

---

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge

damn, at that sort of quality, most people here could probably crap out half a dozen of these maps in one session.

---

i eat paint

now thats a nice box. crap did I just say that?

damn, at that sort of quality, most people here could probably crap out half a dozen of these maps in one session.

I might actually try that, give them all ridiculous over-the-top names
and make fun of those who download and play them in the included text
file. :wink: I might want to release a real map first though... wouldn't
want to confuse people making them think thats the quality I usually go
for.

/me stops rambling.

---

o

I made two before giving up in boredom. Each took about 15 minutes.
awp_whore and aim_akcolt_rawr. I don't see how people can just sit
there and make such uninteresting maps, it had me bored about ten
minutes into the first one I made.

---

o

I'm guilty of making an aim map, but I have no illusions about it: it's crap.

At the risk of soundy like an elitist snob, I can't understand how some
of these people actually argue that their maps are good. I
mean... I understand that we all start somewhere, and that's fine, but
killboxes are like drawing anatomically disproportionate stick figures
on lined paper and saying you've created artwork.

Almost
all these killbox fanatics argue that while their map may look like
crap, it's got great gameplay. Where do they get that idea?

It all depends on how you define good gameplay. To some, running around
a box with crates in it picking up weapons off the ground is good
gameplay. That being said, your map can have 'excellent gameplay' and
still be a piece of crap with errors and and s**tty architecture. I
personally enjoy the occasional aim/fy map, but I prefer a good game
on aztec, train, contra, and other maps along those lines. I also like
coordinating with my team and playing in matches. My point is,
different people like different map styles, but its possible to put
real effort into aim and fy maps and have them come out looking good
instead of fullbright with three textures. Then again its also possible
to use grammar, capitalization, and punctuation on the internet. :/
when i started mapping i typed like this and made killboxes because
they were easy but i got bored of that and found enlightenment at the
snarkpit so i started using proper punctuation and stuff and stopped
making killboxes. I have changed my killboxing ways! Snarkpit saves!
Seriously though, I think it comes down to the fact that the people who
make lots of killbox type maps are, for lack of a better word, noobs.

Edit:

Now if only I could use proper paragraphs. :wink:

---

o

<div class="quote"><div class="quotetitle">? quote: Baron von Snickers</div><div class="quotetext">I think it comes down to the fact that the people who
make lots of killbox type maps are, for lack of a better word, noobs.</div></div>

I think it comes down to the fact that the people who
make lots of killbox type maps are, for lack of a better word, morons.

Gollum said:
<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote: Baron von Snickers</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>I think it comes down to the fact that the people who make lots of killbox type maps are, for lack of a better word, noobs.

I think it comes down to the fact that the people who make lots of killbox type maps are, for lack of a better word, morons.
</div></div>

could we compromise and call them moronic noobs?

---

i eat paint

Gollum said:

Baron von Snickers said:
I think it comes down to the fact that the people who make lots of killbox type maps are, for lack of a better word, noobs.

I think it comes down to the fact that the people who make lots of killbox type maps are, for lack of a better word, morons.

could we compromise and call them moronic noobs?

I prefer noobic morons :biggrin:

I prefer..

Affirmative.

btw, the pic would not work until I right clicked and hit 'view image'.

---

o

<DIV class=quote>
<DIV class=quotetitle>? quote:</DIV>
<DIV class=quotetext>I prefer noobic morons </DIV></DIV>

Does that imply they were once 1337, and they've just recently become a moron?

And considering the different grades of stupidity, shall we refer to them as "idiots" rather than "morons". Calling them morons may be giving them too much credit.

---

In 1910, Henry H. Goddard proposed three categories for the "feeble-minded" based on IQ scores: moron (IQ of 51-70), imbecile (IQ of 26-50), and idiot (IQ of 0-25). This taxonomy was the standard of intelligence research for decades.

---

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn is just to love and be loved in return." -- Toulouse-Lautre, Moulin Rouge

I always imagined morons being dumber than idiots .

I'd rather be called mentally retarded than a moron TBH.

As far as I know idiot just means 'different thinking' with a negative load to it. Moron sounds indeed more negative.

However, if those guys are having fun with their silly unlit maps, let
them have it. It's a bit sad graphics don't say a thing to them. Then
again, the game industry is a bit sad since graphics mean too much to
them, or so it seems... :wink:

---

Create-ivity - a game development blog

I fancy imbecile.

Then
again, the game industry is a bit sad since graphics mean too much to
them, or so it seems... :wink:

Yeah, but these maps aren't any fun either.