Competition 2005 (pre-thread)

If anyone has any thoughts for this year's competition, please fire away below. I have some thoughts myself but I'd like to see what everyone else thinks first.

What competition?

How about brushwork only maps - too much reliance on props these days and would be interesting to see how people compensate etc.

Compensating with textures, I guess? :smile:

The physics aspects of HL2 are definitely interesting to play with. How
about a deathmatch level that incorporates physics traps, or a gameplay
mode that must depend on physics some way or another?

How about a map made of nothing but props. except for the part that encloses the map.

Best Skybox?

Uhm How about the best scary night map. Or A Movie themed map, from a real movie, like StarWars or StarGate, or Texas ChainSaw Masicure..etc.

Hey you almost spelt a great new concept for a movie, Texas Chainsaw Manicure.

"Oh my God, You Bitch! You like, totally broke my nail! Now your gonna die!"

Seriously though I was also about to suggest picking a scene from a
movie and recreating that environment. We did something similar for the
2003 competition except concept art, and that was good.

Or perhaps something a bit more focused, like you have to create a
Pirate themed map (just a suggestion, not to be taken seriously). I'm
sure other members will have some great ideas.

Or perhaps we have to find a real life location, take a photo and
recreate that. That would probably fit the standard texture/props
better as its all real world stuff.

Agent Smith said:
Or perhaps we have to find a real life location, take a photo and recreate that. That would probably fit the standard texture/props better as its all real world stuff.

First off I am a terrible speller.. get used to it. =) I like the idea of the movie.. call Spielburg.

Second I like this idea.. recreate a real world location. Would it have to be something we take a picture of, or could it be from a google search?

I like the idea of brushwork only. But that's only because I'm
still locked into HL1 mapping mode and haven't quite gotten my head
around all that Source has to offer.

How about we create a map where the only requirement is a sense of
scope? A sense of size and grandeur? To really highlight the
Source engine.

I mean, there should be a place in your map where when people walk into
it they go, "oh, wow." I'm thinking a little bit of the feeling
we all got upon leaving the trainstation in SP.

I agree with Addicted to Morphine. Brushwork only is great. I,
personally, loved this old-school style of mapping, where you had to
create everything on your own... no props or anything like that.

But also like the trainstation exit in sp is good idea! Where fps drops from 120 to 20 xD

Anyway... i agree with previous talker.

Not meaning to steal anyone's thunder I think it's only right to point out it was Adam Hawkins' idea, I was just supporting it.

Well it could be a google search, though maybe making it places we have
access to would be more interesting, kind of like a window into our
various cities, towns, suburbs, whatever. This might be cool since we
are all pretty spread out.

To be honest, If I based a map off of where I live it'd be pretty
boring. Suburbia isn't very noteworthy. I'd like to branch
out a bit more. I wouldn't mind working off a photo if it was a
photo of something interesting/foreign/different.

Plus I've been working on a 'real life' place for the last few months, so would have an unfair advantage :wink: And no to props-only or really massive areas, the aim is to make something decent AND playable (on the SP server).

I think a time-themed map is a good idea. Where each room can represent a different time period, or the best one i think is to have your whole map represent a time period. But definitely an emphasis on brushwork. You should still be able to use props, especially the trees.

Also, movie, book, story-themed maps are good like trying to make the 7-walled city from LOTR (trying now...)

But definitely needs to be multiplayer, so we can put them on our server.

i don't see much point in mapping anything for hl2 if a requirement is to leave out its biggest asset in terms of appearance. even hl1 had limited use for models.

You would say that :biggrin: I agree with you though, I don't think brushwork
only is necessarily a good idea, and could well just turn out maps that
aren't playable due to the sheer amount of world polies people may push
in an effort to make nice looking objects.

On the other hand, overuse of the standard props is rife in the source
mapping scene at the moment, so I think the theme should be something
that encourages people not to do so. Forcing a theme that HL2 doesn't
cover could be one way to do this I guess.

At the moment I'm not really full of ideas I'm afraid. Both the movie
theme and real world theme sound not bad, though the latter could well
just see another swarm of HL2 city/canal/warehouse style levels making
an appearance.

What about "Nature"? - I think we've seen enough industrial (...HL2, ...) maps.

My 2nd suggestion: Abstract architecture (Stuff that do/can not exist in real life)

I think that one where you base a map off a photo (note I said a
photo - not just one of your home area) would be great. Take the
example
at Daily Dose of Imagery today - I'd like to see how source
handles that sort of thing.

Alternatively how about a very general criteria where you have to
create atmosphere in a map - and I don't mean just scary either. All
too often these days maps become repetitive and lose their sense of
theme/atmosphere. Having said that, the idea is a bit vague... :smile:

first of all, I think a brush only map would be almost
unplayable. Phys objects are ammo for the grav gun, and with no
props the grav gun is nothing but a nad tosser.

maybe, no staic props?

I like the "nature" idea.

also, I'd like to see a map that really shows off the HL2 physics and stuff like that.

What about, a low gravity map?

or "best non-hl2 theme map, using only hl2 textures?"

I like the best skybox idea, but I think it would have to be figured into another theme, maybe natural?

what about custom content?

Low gravity is a bad idea from a gameplay POV I'd say - it slows air movement too much and makes you an easy target.

hmmmmmm brush work only maps (yes im floging it to death)..... here are my problems:

Performance issues

Detail (you cant go into depth like you can a model eg: Micro brushes!!!)

Thats about it.

The "nature" idea might not be good, as nature is often an open area
that doesnt make for good gameplay (eg: get the magnum and your god)

Here is what I think it should be a about: GAMEPLAY!

Make a map that is dependent on gameplay, something that will set your
map apart from the rest, have a goal in mind on the map (other than
just fragging the hell out of everyone) like crossfire (although its
not limited to that) or on dm_pinnacles, there are two balls that have
a beam in between them that you can toss around and kill people with
(although the map wasnt too great but the ball idea was). Have a map
like that, because what any great maps boils down to is gameplay!!!!

As for custom content: Im fine with that, although dont go over board,
you dont want to embed too much custom models/sounds/textures that will
make your bsp file 50 MB!!!!

Maybe brushwork only isn't such a great idea - and maybe I didn't portray what I meant particularly well. I was interested in how models would be compensated for. Without the props, different themes would be forced due to the limited theme of the standard set. Without props, what would the mapper put in their place?

What about Nature AND abstract architecture? Or you can do the nature stuff a bit more like a valley with big rocks, etc.

The brush work only idea is crap IMO. I think Ding has a good idea with the nature/abstract architecture idea. I would like to see how well people can combine nature with architecture. We could see some original ideas come from it.

I think we should just do a sort of general 'themed' map. We could have a variety of themes to choose from, which would have a better chance of suiting everyones interests. Just a few examples..

• scary

• holocaust

• nature

• stylized

• time period

I've been playing Psychonauts lately, and am dying to do something very stylized (like their insane asylum level), in hl2. With a few general themes to pick from, I could do what I want, and joe shmoe could do a nightmarish texas chainsaw map, if he wanted.

I think we should just do a sort of general 'themed' map. We could have a variety of themes to choose from, which would have a better chance of suiting everyones interests. Just a few examples..

• scary
• holocaust
• nature
• stylized
• time period

I've been playing Psychonauts lately, and am dying to do something very stylized (like their insane asylum level), in hl2. With a few general themes to pick from, I could do what I want, and joe shmoe could do a nightmarish texas chainsaw map, if he wanted.

Seconded.

nature, hmm.... no running water available, and lots of water being bad for the engine = no aqua-land. the trees supplied are way too scrawny for forestation = no jungles. wildlife? hmm...

the only nature type thing that i can think of that hl2 could be good at is mountains. the mountainous displacements that can be made can look really effective.

texture and model creation in the community haven't really grown to a point where standard content can be easily discarded. i'd agree a move out of c-17 is in order, so most of the texture set thats left would be either combine or grungy industrial.

to me, this all suggests anything from a quarry to a mountaintop arena, ranging in style between disused industrial to working hi-tech combine, which would be my suggestion for the comp

I
think we should just do a sort of general 'themed' map. We could have a
variety of themes to choose from, which would have a better chance of
suiting everyones interests. Just a few examples..

• scary
• holocaust
• nature
• stylized
• time period

I've
been playing Psychonauts lately, and am dying to do something very
stylized (like their insane asylum level), in hl2. With a few general
themes to pick from, I could do what I want, and joe shmoe could do a
nightmarish texas chainsaw map, if he wanted.

Seconded.

Thirded. Plus, I've been dying to go out and buy Psychonauts. :sad:

I'd be against a nature theme - it would basically be a test of who can
do the best displacements, I would think. A contest should test a
mapper's skills as a whole, and not cater to a specific technique.

How about a map where you only have the map as your weapon (you use
traps to kill people, may require grav-gun / crowbar / stunstick)

<div class="quote">

I think we should just do a sort of general 'themed' map. We
could have a variety of themes to choose from, which would have a
better chance of suiting everyones interests. Just a few examples..

• scary

• holocaust

• nature

• stylized

• time period

i like this, + i like Loco's suggestion for "atmosphere", Ding's
suggestion for "abstract architecture" and Reno's suggestion for NOT
doing the typical city/canal/warehouse theme.

So maybe we should concentrate on agreeing on the allowed themes?

</div>

How about a map where you only have the map as your weapon (you use
traps to kill people, may require grav-gun / crowbar / stunstick)

I've been thinking along that line a bit for my next map, yes. Sounds
good to me, though maybe limiting the gameplay to physics traps only
could become somewhat boring, I think. But some emphasis on it, yeah...

As for props and other custom stuff... for me, those are the
ingredients of a map. Part of the mapping skill. Mapping is putting it
all together and making it work, not specifically placing brushes...

An idea I recently got was taking a level or area from another game,
and recreating it in HL2DM. It gives guidelines for judging the map,
e.g. did it capture the theme, the feeling of that particular game,
level?

I also think we all remember Persian Letters here, I'd say that's a great example...

I'd be interested in a surrealist map contest.

I'd be interested in a surrealist map contest.

me too. I want to make something very trippy and strange.

maybe we could base the map on artistic styles?

gothic

surreal

abstract

etc.

etc.

Upside down rooms, Escher'ish architecture...hmm, could be pretty cool.

Dammit, I did that for the last competition. Now I have to come up with another trippy concept :sad: .

One problem though with upside down levels and such is that water
doesn't work upside down in source like it did in HL, and that was
always a cool way to travel, jumping up into a pool of water on the
roof.

I'd go for surrealistic/abstract any day, but maybe you should just be more general and just say that it has to be themed differently from anything in HL2.

That could work, but of course the problem comes when judging the
winner, as certain themes might be easier or more appealing than
others. If you perhaps had some fixed themes, ones that had a
reasonable amount of leeway within them, then judging would be
significantly easier and much fairer.

Surrealism, if chosen, would be the first truly original style we've chosen for a contest.

Uses a different theme than HL2, but uses HL2 textures? That's more than a little retarded, folks, because it barely restricts a thing.

Surrealism, if chosen, would be the first truly original style we've chosen for a contest.
Uses a different theme than HL2, but uses HL2 textures? That's more
than a little retarded, folks, because it barely restricts a thing.

Look through some of the maps here on the site (not to pimp, but dm_cliff) use HL2 textures and still dont use hl2 theme.

I'd say we should do surrealism (or the art thing I suggested) with no
areas taken from HL2. i.e. no combine area or city area with the
combine wall or check points.

Surrealism sounds great. Gives me a few ideas...

I think all maps should contain some kind of tribute to my infinite glory, or should all be named gwilrules.bsp.

This is a good idea!

..

I'll get my coat.. - Seriously though, surrealism sounds like a good idea. One of my many unfinished pieces done in flatshade was based on "surrealism" including a take up of the Dali clocks, I forget the name of the picture. Something something time something. Go go gadget surrealism!

Madedog said:
I agree with Addicted to Morphine. Brushwork only is great. I, personally, loved this old-school style of mapping, where you had to create everything on your own... no props or anything like that.

That ain't old school, not even middle school. Old school is where you program the geometry by hand, going vertex by vertex, tex coord by tex coord, surface normal by surface normal, vertex normal by vertex normal. Now that's old school :biggrin: .

Well my idea would be to take a scene from a movie(except The Matrix movies, too many f'ing lobbys and staircase maps around) and recreate that. Bring games back to why we play them in the first place, to forget reality. I think the graveyard from Army of Darkness would be sweet!

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"Every time you make something idiot-proof, someone creates a better idiot." -Anonymous

Aelon.net for Gaming News

If we're doing surrealism, I think we'll need some special "contest" textures made, you know... cough :smile:

You mean some 'flatshaded' ones? :wink:

Anyway, surrealism or abstract maps... sounds good to me.

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Create-ivity - a game development blog

sure, ive seen pleanty of industrial maps for hl2, but we havent seen
any, if not many futuristic or true metallicy levels (not including
combine) for half life 2, and i need textures for it, and I enjoy doing
that :biggrin:

time period hmm? time warp tunnel anyone?

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I need a new sig

Ho-lee s**t, people are actually agreeing with my ideas for a contest?!

Ho-lee s**t, people are actually agreeing with my ideas for a contest?!

oh crap thats right... ok on second thought the surreal thing doesn't sound cool, lets go with a puppy theme.

:wink:

I've got an even better idea! Lets have a killbox competition!

Or we can find our Favorite killbox and do a remake!

Yeah! Super Awesome!

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Ham and Jam Contributor
http://www.hamandjam.org

'Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape!'

Why not do, with HL2 textures, a rats map?

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HL2 tutorials 'n' stuff: http://madedog.pri.ee
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